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2010 Draft Signing Thread

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:05 pm

I'm going to be updating this as news comes in or as signings are official. If anyone else sees an article/link on a website that mentions something on whether a guy can be signed or not or something along those lines, post it here. I'll also add it to their profile page as i will be updating the page for every player throughout the signing process.

To get things started, Aaron Fields (42) and Jordan Casas (40) have said they are going to sign, so I think they will be part of the announcement this coming week (provided the Indians want to sign them). Also, Burch Smith is going to pitch summer ball and has been told by the Indians they want to follow him and see how he does.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby JP_Frost » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:55 pm

Don't tease me about Burch Smith, Tony!
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby dc101 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:08 pm

Who the F is Burch Smith and why is everyone on here talking about a 20th Round pick?
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby JP_Frost » Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:14 pm

dc101 wrote:Who the F is Burch Smith and why is everyone on here talking about a 20th Round pick?


because he's more highly regarded than a 20th round pick and some might argue he was a 3-5 round pick. A big kid with a strong fastball and room for more. His offspeed stuff is still in need of development, but he presents considerable upside.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:26 pm

dc101 wrote:Who the F is Burch Smith and why is everyone on here talking about a 20th Round pick?


Did you follow our draft coverage?
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:07 pm

Talked at length with Mirabelli about an hour ago about a lot of things. I'll opine on some of it in Smoke Signals tonight. But will have an article in the morning updating how the signing process is and will go. He said to expect a significant drop in the number of signed players as compared to previous years....more quality than quantity this year.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby dc101 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:51 pm

I followed the draft coverage, yes. And I saw people talking about this guy all the way through Day 2, but I'm still unsure why this guy already seems to have cult-hero status.

If some of the top guys sign, where would they likely rank with the rest of our prospects? Is a guy like Washington a better prospect than Kipnis, a kid that was a border-line Top 10 prospect as ranked heading into this season? What about Wolters, would he be a better pure prospect than Kipnis? How does a guy like Blair stack up against Gardner? What about Aviles vs. Haley (tonight's outing, notwithstanding)? And if Lavisky signs, would he be the best positional prospect that we have in the lower levels of the system? Just curious to hear some feedback on that.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:52 pm

dc101 wrote:I followed the draft coverage, yes. And I saw people talking about this guy all the way through Day 2, but I'm still unsure why this guy already seems to have cult-hero status.

If some of the top guys sign, where would they likely rank with the rest of our prospects? Is a guy like Washington a better prospect than Kipnis, a kid that was a border-line Top 10 prospect as ranked heading into this season? What about Wolters, would he be a better pure prospect than Kipnis? How does a guy like Blair stack up against Gardner? What about Aviles vs. Haley (tonight's outing, notwithstanding)? And if Lavisky signs, would he be the best positional prospect that we have in the lower levels of the system? Just curious to hear some feedback on that.


I think ranking wise, a lot will depend on how well they perform in Mahoning Valley/Lake County this season. I think it's way too early to tell where these guys are going to rank.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby dc101 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:01 pm

Obviously too early. None of the guys that I mentioned have even signed yet. But take a stab at it. I'm just wondering how highly regarded some of these guys are when compared to similar players in our system.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:07 pm

dc101 wrote:Obviously too early. None of the guys that I mentioned have even signed yet. But take a stab at it. I'm just wondering how highly regarded some of these guys are when compared to similar players in our system.


Off purse guesstimation...

Pomeranz will definitely be in the top ten, but I'd say will fall in the 4-7 range.
Washington 9-15.
Wolters 15-20.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby dc101 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:19 pm

If we assume that Santana, Marson, Donald, Brantley, Sipp, Brown, and Carrasco have all matriculated to the majors and are no longer prospects by years end, something I think is very likely, I think you're looking at something like this:

1. Chiz
2. White
3. Hagadone
4. Pomeranz
5. Knapp
6. Weglarz
7. De La Cruz
8. Kipnis
9. Rondon
10. Gardner

With guys like McFarland, Washington, Stowell, Grenwell, Abreu, and Wolters in the next tier. That is just as of right now, and with me throwing this together in about 2 minutes, but that's how I would rank these guys. That Top 10 really shows you how thin we are in terms of quality positional prospects. Thoughts? Anyone too high or too low? You start signing guys like Lavisky and Aviles, and this list could change pretty quickly.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby indiansfan055 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:25 pm

That list looks pretty good to me. I might put Chen on the lower tier as well simply for his bat. He may have one of the best bats in our system.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby MadThinker88 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:34 pm

dc101 wrote:If we assume that Santana, Marson, Donald, Brantley, Sipp, Brown, and Carrasco have all matriculated to the majors and are no longer prospects by years end, something I think is very likely, I think you're looking at something like this:

1. Chiz
2. White
3. Hagadone
4. Pomeranz
5. Knapp
6. Weglarz
7. De La Cruz
8. Kipnis
9. Rondon
10. Gardner

With guys like McFarland, Washington, Stowell, Grenwell, Abreu, and Wolters in the next tier. That is just as of right now, and with me throwing this together in about 2 minutes, but that's how I would rank these guys. That Top 10 really shows you how thin we are in terms of quality positional prospects. Thoughts? Anyone too high or too low? You start signing guys like Lavisky and Aviles, and this list could change pretty quickly.

Think you need to keep a few others in mind as 1 or 2 might crack the lower part of the top 10: Josh Judy / Josh Tomlin / Rob Bryson / Wes Hodges.

While your point of being weighted toward pitching is very valid, pitching is also the thing it is said a team cannot have enough of.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:37 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:
dc101 wrote:If we assume that Santana, Marson, Donald, Brantley, Sipp, Brown, and Carrasco have all matriculated to the majors and are no longer prospects by years end, something I think is very likely, I think you're looking at something like this:

1. Chiz
2. White
3. Hagadone
4. Pomeranz
5. Knapp
6. Weglarz
7. De La Cruz
8. Kipnis
9. Rondon
10. Gardner

With guys like McFarland, Washington, Stowell, Grenwell, Abreu, and Wolters in the next tier. That is just as of right now, and with me throwing this together in about 2 minutes, but that's how I would rank these guys. That Top 10 really shows you how thin we are in terms of quality positional prospects. Thoughts? Anyone too high or too low? You start signing guys like Lavisky and Aviles, and this list could change pretty quickly.

Think you need to keep a few others in mind as 1 or 2 might crack the lower part of the top 10: Josh Judy / Josh Tomlin / Rob Bryson / Wes Hodges.

While your point of being weighted toward pitching is very valid, pitching is also the thing it is said a team cannot have enough of.


Pretty good list to me. I don't think Hodges or Tomlin would crack my top ten. Bryson may at 9 or 10. Same with Judy.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby dc101 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:43 pm

I considered Judy, Bryson, and Putnam. Could definitely make a case for those guys coming out of the pen. But Hodges and Tomlin just aren't prospects any longer, IMO. I'd love to see Tomlin get a few spot starts here and there this season in Cleveland, but if he's a Top 10 prospect in your system, your system is not that good. Ours is better than that. Hodges, I dunno. I don't see it. The guy is 26 years old at season's end. Like Tomlin, I'd love to see him work into a stop-gap role if Peralta is moved, biding time until Chisenhall is ready, but I can't see him as a better prospect than any of the guys mentioned. Another name would be House, and maybe a guy like Graham, Barnes, or Berger if they keep up their play of late.

And sure, you can never have enough pitching. But when you consider that our starting pitching has been our strength this year (if a 22 win team can have a strength), and that many of our most productive position players could very likely be dealt in a couple months (Kearns, Peralta, Branyan, maybe Hafner), that makes the lack of top bats in the system at least a slight concern. All the more reason to spend a little bit to sign Lavisky!
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby dnosco » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:53 pm

dc101 wrote:If we assume that Santana, Marson, Donald, Brantley, Sipp, Brown, and Carrasco have all matriculated to the majors and are no longer prospects by years end, something I think is very likely, I think you're looking at something like this:

1. Chiz
2. White
3. Hagadone
4. Pomeranz
5. Knapp
6. Weglarz
7. De La Cruz
8. Kipnis
9. Rondon
10. Gardner

With guys like McFarland, Washington, Stowell, Grenwell, Abreu, and Wolters in the next tier. That is just as of right now, and with me throwing this together in about 2 minutes, but that's how I would rank these guys. That Top 10 really shows you how thin we are in terms of quality positional prospects. Thoughts? Anyone too high or too low? You start signing guys like Lavisky and Aviles, and this list could change pretty quickly.


Knapp might not have pitched in a year and a half by then and De La Cruz is not looking too good.

I think it will more likely be:

1. Chiz
2. White
3. Hagadone
4. Pomeranz
5. Kipnis
6. TJ House
7. Washington
8. Knapp
9. Bryson
10. Aviles

assuming that Washington and Aviles sign and Knapp pitches at all.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby theshow » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:43 am

Consigliere wrote:Talked at length with Mirabelli about an hour ago about a lot of things. I'll opine on some of it in Smoke Signals tonight. But will have an article in the morning updating how the signing process is and will go. He said to expect a significant drop in the number of signed players as compared to previous years....more quality than quantity this year.


These words sound kind of scary to me. We drafted quality.... Spend the money and sign them!!! It is simple accounting ideals.

--High ceiling prospects are assets
--expensive major leaguers on the downside of their career (Wood, Hafner) are liabilities
--In order to generate the best possible outlook for your team, you want more assets than liabilities
--So just sign all of them!!! None will cost more then 2.5 million (Pom). That is 1/5 what Travis Hafner makes for 1 season!!!!!!!
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby dnosco » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:02 am

theshow wrote:
Consigliere wrote:Talked at length with Mirabelli about an hour ago about a lot of things. I'll opine on some of it in Smoke Signals tonight. But will have an article in the morning updating how the signing process is and will go. He said to expect a significant drop in the number of signed players as compared to previous years....more quality than quantity this year.


These words sound kind of scary to me. We drafted quality.... Spend the money and sign them!!! It is simple accounting ideals.

--High ceiling prospects are assets
--expensive major leaguers on the downside of their career (Wood, Hafner) are liabilities
--In order to generate the best possible outlook for your team, you want more assets than liabilities
--So just sign all of them!!! None will cost more then 2.5 million (Pom). That is 1/5 what Travis Hafner makes for 1 season!!!!!!!


I agree with a lot of what you said but I find Mirabelli's words to be the opposite of scary. No more signing umpteen college seniors or spending $200,000+ on mediocre talent. Spent it all on those 12 top end guys plus one or two of the other flyers. Sign 14-15 guys and MAYBE anyone else who wants to sign for under $100,000. I think that is and should be the plan.

I think Mirabelli is actually saying what you are proposing. I mean, it's not like he needs quantity. When you are cutting performers like Cawiezell, Head, Allman and others this spring, you MUST have a lot of guys in extended already so you don't need quantity.

The only caution I will throw out there is that you don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Don't hesitate to sign a couple of guys like Clayton Cook in addition to those 14-15 top-ranked guys. I know Cook isn't looking that good now but, as a late round flier, he is more intriguing than some low ranked college junior or college senior.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby daingean » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:55 am

dnosco wrote:
dc101 wrote:If we assume that Santana, Marson, Donald, Brantley, Sipp, Brown, and Carrasco have all matriculated to the majors and are no longer prospects by years end, something I think is very likely, I think you're looking at something like this:

1. Chiz
2. White
3. Hagadone
4. Pomeranz
5. Knapp
6. Weglarz
7. De La Cruz
8. Kipnis
9. Rondon
10. Gardner

With guys like McFarland, Washington, Stowell, Grenwell, Abreu, and Wolters in the next tier. That is just as of right now, and with me throwing this together in about 2 minutes, but that's how I would rank these guys. That Top 10 really shows you how thin we are in terms of quality positional prospects. Thoughts? Anyone too high or too low? You start signing guys like Lavisky and Aviles, and this list could change pretty quickly.


Knapp might not have pitched in a year and a half by then and De La Cruz is not looking too good.

I think it will more likely be:

1. Chiz
2. White
3. Hagadone
4. Pomeranz
5. Kipnis
6. TJ House
7. Washington
8. Knapp
9. Bryson
10. Aviles

assuming that Washington and Aviles sign and Knapp pitches at all.


I don't think Bryson (reliever) or Aviles makes a top 10. Aviles may sign but not pitch at all. I will say that Trey Haley is working his way into a top 10 position. Weglarz would rank higher than Washington. My early top 10 would be:

1. Chiz
2. White
3. Hagadone
4. Pom
5. Kipnis
6. Weglarz
7. House
8. Haley
9. Gardner
10. Washington
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby Jake Taylor » Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:29 am

daingean wrote:
I don't think Bryson (reliever) or Aviles makes a top 10. Aviles may sign but not pitch at all. I will say that Trey Haley is working his way into a top 10 position. Weglarz would rank higher than Washington. My early top 10 would be:

1. Chiz
2. White
3. Hagadone
4. Pom
5. Kipnis
6. Weglarz
7. House
8. Haley
9. Gardner
10. Washington


Haley at #8 and Rondon not on the list is ... insanity.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:09 am

Big signing update on the front page:

http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/2 ... pdate.html

I had an intro with lots of quotes from Mirabelli which I pulled as I have decided to post that separately in order to keep the signing thread on its own so I can update it periodically these next several weeks. Mirabelli piece will post tomorrow.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:27 am

Jake Taylor wrote:
daingean wrote:
I don't think Bryson (reliever) or Aviles makes a top 10. Aviles may sign but not pitch at all. I will say that Trey Haley is working his way into a top 10 position. Weglarz would rank higher than Washington. My early top 10 would be:

1. Chiz
2. White
3. Hagadone
4. Pom
5. Kipnis
6. Weglarz
7. House
8. Haley
9. Gardner
10. Washington


Haley at #8 and Rondon not on the list is ... insanity.



I don't think Haley being 8 is insanity. I'd put Rondon ahead of Gardner though. I don't think it's crazy to not have Rondon top 10 either. Still a good prospect, but De La Cruz fell last year cause of injury and he has better stuff. We just have a deep system.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby daingean » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:12 am

I don't have Knapp in the top 10 either as I will wait and see with his arm injury. If he can come back and pitch well, I will put him up there too. Same with Rondon (whether it's in Instructs or Venezuela). I just think with Rondon's poor season + injury he drops out of the top 10 (not top 15 though).
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby theshow » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:28 am

Just looking at some past draft on baseball cube and thinking about what all these guys are going to sign for. Dennis made a good point, I would rather have 12 quality guys, then 30 stiffs.

What the Indians did by taking so many prospects with upside which is really smart is they gave themselves negotiating power. If one player is being unreasonable with his bonus requests, there are 30 other guys we drafted who are good prospects, so we cross the first guy off the list and not sign him, and try to lowball the next guy. It is pretty much the same concept, that if you go to a bar and hit on 30 girls, you have a better chance of getting one to sleep with you then if you only hit on 1 girl.

Have to say I am sad to read the it sounds like Wolters won't sign. I think he was a favorite pick of many people, but it sounds like the bonus would have to be excessive. Still early in the signing process you never know.

By the way, here are my bargains and ripoffs:

Bargains
Luke Scott $10,000
Kevin Kouzmanoff $45,000
Tony Sipp $130,000
Aaron Laffey $363,000
Paulo Espino $150,000
Jared Goedert $70,000
TJ McFarland $285,000
Bo Greenwell $123,000
Lonnie Chisenhall $1,100,000

Rip-offs
Brad Snyder $1,525,000
Javier Herrera $710,000
Justin Hoyman $725,000
John Drennen $1,000,000
Dan Denham $2,000,000
Steve Wright $630,000
Beau Mills $1,575,000
Tim Fedroff $725,000
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby OhioBaseball » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:44 am

Regarding the prospect top 10's, I saw a lot of Alex White at UNC his freshman, sophomore and junior years and I've seen Pomeranz 4 times or so. I haven't seen White since leaving Chapel Hill, but Pomeranz is the better pitching prospect. I know White is in Double-A with a ERA of 1.43, but with his low strike out total, I think there has been a fair amount of luck in his performance there thus far. I don't mean to rip on White b/c I think he's a good pitching prospect, but based on talent, Pomeranz gets the nod over White from me.

Regarding the arms the Indians took in the draft, they were indeed aggressive, as Tony mentioned that they would be before the draft.

Aviles, Allen, Gause are nice potential over-slot potential prospects, but I was watching the videos on MLB and this guy Robert Wahl is also a projectable pitching prospect with potential to blossom. He's a little raw with his delivery, but he is potentially a very good pitching prospect if he irons things out. I looked into him and he's got a scholarship to Ole Miss. I saw something about him asking for 1st round money. Seems like a little much for him at this stage in his development, but Wahl is one of those types of pitching prospects that could go to college and develop into a 1st rounder three years from now. Seems like an unlikely sign, but just another name to watch this summer.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:57 am

Folks, this is a draft signing thread. Not a top 10 prospect discussion thread. Just an FYI. :s_wink

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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby dnosco » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:21 pm

Consigliere wrote:Folks, this is a draft signing thread. Not a top 10 prospect discussion thread. Just an FYI. :s_wink

:angel:


Agreed. One thing I will note is that, as I look at who will be remaining in the minors after the guys have used up their prospect eligibility this year, and factor in injuries and bad performances, the new guys, if we sign them, should be among our top prospects as our supposed depth is quickly evaporating due to promotion, injury and poor performance.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:24 pm

I really hope we pay Wolters what he wants, I don't care if we have to give him a good six figure bonus to get him.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:20 pm

A.Zajac wrote:I really hope we pay Wolters what he wants, I don't care if we have to give him a good six figure bonus to get him.

He is a local lad and I have seen him play a few times. You are right to be concerned. He believes he is a top 50 talent and I would agree. He wants to be paid accordingly and I believe he will head to USD if we are not well over slot. But there isn't much at SS in this organization to block this guy and I would spend the money even if it means signing fewer picks. I think most posters on this blog will really like him. FWIW, I believe he stays at SS.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:11 pm

Wolters is my fave draftee & I'd rather have him signed than any of them. He seems like the kind of payer that you always see coming up big in the big games.

I'd like to sign Washington just to add that type of talent to the system. The personality stuff doesn't bother me as I believe that that can be channeled into competitiveness, if surrounded by the right teammates/coaches.

I'd like to see Trey Griffen signed. I'd like to see Bobby Wahl signed. Watched his vid & was really impressed with the extension in his delivery. It's almost Lincecum-like.

I'd like to sign Aviles & Lavisky based on upside. I'd like to sign Pomeranz if he'll go for slot. I don't agree that he's as good as Alex White but he'll be a useful SP in MLB. If he wouldn't sign for slot I'd remind him how good next year's draft will be. Unlike "Banned Bomber" I think he'd be lucky to go top ten next year.

One guy we have to sign, even if Tony has to use all of his influence with the FO, is Burch Smith. We have to consider JP's emotional balance.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby PanRains » Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:22 pm

What do you all see Wolters becoming? I've seen the Pedroia comps but really, has anyone who is physically like Pedroia other than Dustin himself turned out anything like him? It would seem to me FAR more likely (if he made the bigs) that he become an Eckstein type, maybe a Royce Clayton type. And while that guy has value, and improves your system... I don't know that him walking is that big of a loss.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 7:15 pm

I see the classic #2 hitter. The game, sans steroids, is going back to a place where small-ball is an important part of the game & in that type of game, IMO, the top of the lineup is very important. The scouting reports all say that Wolters can hit pitching from either side and of any velocity. Contact & bat contol are most valuable in the #2 guy.

I also see a guy who will be solid defensively, steady & cool headed & play to the situation. I'm seeing a future batting order with Washington leadoff, Wolters 2nd, & Chiz 3rd. After we grab Rendon next year that takes care of the top four spots.

I could have made the long post short & said I could see Wolters making an Omar type contribution to the team, minus a little defense.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby petes999 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:58 pm

When I heard Tony say on his show that usually we sign 25-30 players but this year it will be drastically reduced (I thought he said maybe to 20-25), I wondered what that would mean based on who we selected. I went based on college players in the top 20 usually sign. I also went on Tony’s notes on who would probably sign. This gave me 10 players who would be quick and easy signs for MV and AZ plus possibly 1-2 more in 20-30 drat slot range who we don't know about yet. Then I went to see who we would go after in top 16 and came up with 4-5 easy August signees (wait to sign for overslots). I also said we would get 2 to 4 of the tough 6 signees in the top 16. This means that we will have 17 to 21 player. Thus, I only see 3 signees past the top 16 picks of all those HS players we selected (to get to that 20-25 range).

I am starting to see that Cleveland's aggressive may mean go after the top 16 picks and sign them (going over slot on Pom, Wash, Wolters and a few others). Then see what else you can get with the remaining budget.

I guess aggressive for me would be to take the normal top 16 (going like they did - maybe for a few more HS players) plus 15-20 flyers who dropped due to college commitments after round 16 and offer $250,000 to them and see if you can sign 5-7 of them when they come off their dream of first round money. This is spending $2-3 million more in Top 16 compared to last year college senior class (1/2 million more for 4-6 tough HS/JC/Soph kids) plus $1.5 to 2.0 million for those who drop past round 16. Kind of like Pitts does (spend more on the draft). I see that they have done some of the Top 16 reaches in the past with Greenwell, House, Laffey, McFarland, Fedroff, ... We did a bit more of this this year. But, I don't see them reaching after Top 16 as much with the number of signings being "drastically reduced".

I know my vision of aggressive is a pipe dream (them spending money). Yet, this is how you keep Boston and NY in reasonable sight as you can't compete with them in FA or International markets. And, it is the cost of forgoing a Dellucci, Nixon or Branyan. Hopefully out of the 6-8 additional HS kids with higher upside, you get 1 or 2 high prospects out of it each year, eliminating the need for wasting money on FA filler.

Quick Signs (probably 10 + 1 or 2 more college fillers for MV)
4th – Blair – College player will sign (already 22 years old)
6th – Bartalone – 95% - small JC college – will sign if offered
10th – Holt – College Jr? -- will sign
12th – Cannon – sign if offered – college senior
14th – Seastrunk – sign if offered – college senior
18th – Burnette – college sign
33rd – Thompson – Sign if offered
40th – Casa – Signed
42nd – Fields – Signed
50th – Dunn – Signed (or close to it)

August Signs (at least 4 of the 5 will sign)
1st- Pom – 99% sure (college Jr … no leverage next year as Sr.)
2nd -Wash – 95% sure (could go back to JC but would have a bigger red flag next year as a difficult sign)
5th – Cook – College eligible sophomore – tough sign but will get it done (75%)
7th – Avilies – 80% (He will take the money knowing he may not come back fully)
8th – Lavisky – 90% (He is a local boy)

Maybe sign (say we get 2 to 4 here)
3rd – Wolters – HS pick – 60 % (Cleveland will go aggressive here)
9th – Cooper – 50% per Tony
11th – Jones – HS – tough sign 30%
13th – Goodnight – tough sign as college - 50%
15th – Wetzler – HS – tough sign 20%
16th – Allen – JC – tough sign

Who else???? What did I miss?
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby JP_Frost » Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:28 pm

You missed guys like Smith (I know), Dischler, Triggs, Lively and maybe Gause -- unless you think they're completely unsignable.

Frankly, I'd pass on Cook and Cooper if that means I have money to spend on 1 or 2 of the players selected from the 20th round on. Cooper was a solid pick, but I wouldn't go overslot on him. I think we can do without Cook.

Teams left and right are banging out deals with their players. Most of them have signed for slot though, so maybe that's why the announcements are coming so soon, but I'm just a little worried based on Tony's article as well the Tribe's draft history, that we might be in for some serious dissapointments in terms of guys we can't/won't sign.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby OhioBaseball » Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:56 am

Rocky55 wrote: I'd like to sign Pomeranz if he'll go for slot. I don't agree that he's as good as Alex White but he'll be a useful SP in MLB. If he wouldn't sign for slot I'd remind him how good next year's draft will be. Unlike "Banned Bomber" I think he'd be lucky to go top ten next year.


This is not necessarily directed toward Rocky, but I've been surprised by the lack of enthusiasm about Drew Pomeranz by Tribe fans. I guess people don't like the velocity reports on him? Pomeranz throws 90-94, but it is with very low effort. He dominated the SEC for two years with that velocity; he didn't need to throw any harder. If he wanted to, he could bump it up to 93-96 MPH. He definitely has it in him.

I'm a UNC baseball fan, so I'm naturally inclined to support White, but I really think he's a notch below Pomeranz. Here are the two pitcher's stats -- White was in the ACC, Pomeranz the SEC (the stronger conference).

Alex White
Junior - 3.87 ERA, 107 IP, 93 H, 44 BB, 121 K, 31 XBH
Sophomore - 2.83 ERA, 101.2 IP, 78 H, 42 BB, 113 K, 21 XBH
Freshman - 4.94 ERA, 98.1 IP, 48 BB, 83 K, 32 XBH

Drew Pomeranz
Junior - 2.24 ERA, 100.2 IP, 71 H, 49 BB, 139 K, 18 XBH
Sophomore - 3.40 ERA, 95.1 IP, 85 H, 37 BB, 124 K, 29 XBH
Freshman - 4.19 ERA, 71.1 IP, 76 H, 30 BB, 81 K, 24 XBH

Statistically, I think Pomeranz gets the upper hand (more K's). Scouting-wise, if you watch the two's throwing motions, I think most scouts will walk away liking Pomeranz more. He throws with less effort, has less stiffness in his delivery and gets better downward plane on his pitches. Pomeranz is not as athletic as White, however, and White has a better body. Also, Pomeranz has the body type where he may eventually gain weight (bad weight) when he gets older. I think Pomeranz has better stuff, but I am more inclined to like pitchers that have better swing-and-miss stuff, and that is Pomeranz as opposed to White, whom is more of a sinker/slider guy. I think Pomeranz gets a Cliff Lee-like downward tilt to his pitches. Their fastballs are both very comparable, but Pomeranz' curve is definitely less developed.

Pomeranz is a really good pitching prospect. He's a power pitcher in that he can consistently throw his fastball by hitters b/c he gets such good downward plane on the pitch, and it is deceptively fast b/c he throws with such little effort.

My point being not that people are wrong to not be crazy about Pomeranz, but that he is a guy Indians fans should be excited about. Two months ago I thought Pomeranz was going to go #2 overall. He fell to #5, and while he's not as good as former SEC lefty David Price, and the Indians are fortunate they were able to nab him.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby petes999 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:59 am

JP_Frost wrote:You missed guys like Smith (I know), Dischler, Triggs, Lively and maybe Gause -- unless you think they're completely unsignable.


I left off those over round 16 saying that we may only be able to get 3 or so due to Maribelli's significant reduction in signees... so who do we go after?

JP_Frost wrote:I'm just a little worried based on Tony's article as well the Tribe's draft history, that we might be in for some serious dissapointments in terms of guys we can't/won't sign.


That's what I started to think based on this analysis. The question is, does the increase in what we sign picks 1-3 for make up for not being able to sign an additional 5-7 picks after round 16 on HS/JUCO players that fell? Last year going $2.25 million for White at pick 15 may have been worth it if he is really a top 5 or so player in the draft. Yet, would it have been better to go after a Miller or Gibson type who also fell? This year is signing Washington for more than slot (up to $1.5 million if Boras has his way), better than signing Workman for a just a bit overslot and be able to take 1 or 2 more HS flyers later?
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:46 am

5th rounder Cole Cook is signing. No idea when, but he will be signing.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby MadThinker88 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:30 am

Consigliere wrote:5th rounder Cole Cook is signing. No idea when, but he will be signing.


That's good to hear. Hopefully the 1st of many such posts.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:38 am

MadThinker88 wrote:
Consigliere wrote:5th rounder Cole Cook is signing. No idea when, but he will be signing.


That's good to hear. Hopefully the 1st of many such posts.


That's four guys that I know of now: Cole, Calas, Fields and Dunn.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby dnosco » Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:55 am

Interestingly, I don't know that you will see many quick signees, outside of the college seniors. I think Mirabelli hinted that they wouldn't be signing a lot of players and they only drafted FOUR college seniors, which must be some kind of a low record for the Indians. Interestingly two college juniors, Casas and Dunn, have already signed.

Regarding Cole, that is just good scouting, knowing that a quality draft-eligible sophomore would sign right away (or agreed right away to be signed later in the summer).
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby JP_Frost » Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:04 pm

Not sure if this is the right thread for it, but here are some detailed scouting reports of a couple of players we drafted:

Tyler Holt: http://www.pnrscouting.com/scoutingrepo ... oltty.html
Tony Wolters: http://www.pnrscouting.com/scoutingrepo ... ersto.html
Bobby Wahl: http://www.pnrscouting.com/scoutingrepo ... ahlbo.html

Wahl sounds very interesting, but I doubt we can sign him.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby JP_Frost » Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:11 pm

dnosco wrote:Interestingly, I don't know that you will see many quick signees, outside of the college seniors. I think Mirabelli hinted that they wouldn't be signing a lot of players and they only drafted FOUR college seniors, which must be some kind of a low record for the Indians. Interestingly two college juniors, Casas and Dunn, have already signed.

Regarding Cole, that is just good scouting, knowing that a quality draft-eligible sophomore would sign right away (or agreed right away to be signed later in the summer).


he's actually a junior.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby dc101 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:20 pm

Consigliere wrote:Folks, this is a draft signing thread. Not a top 10 prospect discussion thread. Just an FYI. :s_wink

:angel:

Is there any way you could move this to another thread, then? This is an interesting discussion that it seems like a few people are wanting to keep going.

Santana with his first home run!
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby Rocky55 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:54 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:
Rocky55 wrote: I'd like to sign Pomeranz if he'll go for slot. I don't agree that he's as good as Alex White but he'll be a useful SP in MLB. If he wouldn't sign for slot I'd remind him how good next year's draft will be. Unlike "Banned Bomber" I think he'd be lucky to go top ten next year.


This is not necessarily directed toward Rocky, but I've been surprised by the lack of enthusiasm about Drew Pomeranz by Tribe fans. I guess people don't like the velocity reports on him? Pomeranz throws 90-94, but it is with very low effort. He dominated the SEC for two years with that velocity; he didn't need to throw any harder. If he wanted to, he could bump it up to 93-96 MPH. He definitely has it in him.

I'm a UNC baseball fan, so I'm naturally inclined to support White, but I really think he's a notch below Pomeranz. Here are the two pitcher's stats -- White was in the ACC, Pomeranz the SEC (the stronger conference).

Alex White
Junior - 3.87 ERA, 107 IP, 93 H, 44 BB, 121 K, 31 XBH
Sophomore - 2.83 ERA, 101.2 IP, 78 H, 42 BB, 113 K, 21 XBH
Freshman - 4.94 ERA, 98.1 IP, 48 BB, 83 K, 32 XBH

Drew Pomeranz
Junior - 2.24 ERA, 100.2 IP, 71 H, 49 BB, 139 K, 18 XBH
Sophomore - 3.40 ERA, 95.1 IP, 85 H, 37 BB, 124 K, 29 XBH
Freshman - 4.19 ERA, 71.1 IP, 76 H, 30 BB, 81 K, 24 XBH

Statistically, I think Pomeranz gets the upper hand (more K's). Scouting-wise, if you watch the two's throwing motions, I think most scouts will walk away liking Pomeranz more. He throws with less effort, has less stiffness in his delivery and gets better downward plane on his pitches. Pomeranz is not as athletic as White, however, and White has a better body. Also, Pomeranz has the body type where he may eventually gain weight (bad weight) when he gets older. I think Pomeranz has better stuff, but I am more inclined to like pitchers that have better swing-and-miss stuff, and that is Pomeranz as opposed to White, whom is more of a sinker/slider guy. I think Pomeranz gets a Cliff Lee-like downward tilt to his pitches. Their fastballs are both very comparable, but Pomeranz' curve is definitely less developed.

Pomeranz is a really good pitching prospect. He's a power pitcher in that he can consistently throw his fastball by hitters b/c he gets such good downward plane on the pitch, and it is deceptively fast b/c he throws with such little effort.

My point being not that people are wrong to not be crazy about Pomeranz, but that he is a guy Indians fans should be excited about. Two months ago I thought Pomeranz was going to go #2 overall. He fell to #5, and while he's not as good as former SEC lefty David Price, and the Indians are fortunate they were able to nab him.


Just read this & I'd like to offer a counterpoint I think OB's analysis is good. I believe that I said some very similar things about Pomeranz in the draft thread, specifically noting how easily he sits on 90/92. I also mentioned his knuckle curve which is a true swing & miss pitch at the college level. I also stated that he was the best draft eligible college pitcher that I'd seen. I'm a Pomeranz fan. I'm also prone to hyperbole, but...

Alex White was injured during his junior year, and fair or not, I throw those stats out. I also agree that "top-to-bottom" most years the SEC is superior to the ACC. I also believe that this was a down year for the SEC. There is also the fact that Alex White's sophomore year was accomplished at an age two years younger than Pomeranz's junior year. I also believe that Pomeranz is now a two-pitch pitcher & that pro hitters will eat up a two-pitch starter.

So, I couldn't be happier that we have these two guys. I think that there is more to both of them than just stats. What I think that Alex White has over Pomeranz, other than the fact that he has more pitches, is that White is one of the toughest bulldog competitors I've ever seen. I saw Tribe pitchers gag in the ALC series against Boston, I saw both Pomeranz & Ranaudo gag in their ballyhooed matchup this year. That's the grain of salt I have to take with Pomeranz.

Speaking of toughness, did anyone see Purke's start against Texas? Dominance is almost too feeble a word.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby npc29 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:32 pm

Sounds like 35th round pick Ken Ferrer is ready to move on from Elon...

“I am very grateful to be given this opportunity,” said Ferrer. “This is my chance to come into my own. Without the focus and work ethic that I established at Elon I wouldn’t be in this position. I’ve gotten better over the last three years and that is why I went to Elon. I did what I could for the Phoenix and now I hope to do what I can for the Indians.”


http://www.elonphoenix.com/news.aspx?nid=7338&sid=bb
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby OhioBaseball » Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:34 pm

Rocky55 wrote: So, I couldn't be happier that we have these two guys. I think that there is more to both of them than just stats. What I think that Alex White has over Pomeranz, other than the fact that he has more pitches, is that White is one of the toughest bulldog competitors I've ever seen. I saw Tribe pitchers gag in the ALC series against Boston, I saw both Pomeranz & Ranaudo gag in their ballyhooed matchup this year. That's the grain of salt I have to take with Pomeranz.

Speaking of toughness, did anyone see Purke's start against Texas? Dominance is almost too feeble a word.


OK, we're pretty much on the same page. I will say that Pomeranz was also not 100% this year, like White last year, but still performed well. He also pitched will in the regionals and super regionals last year, and was passable vs. St. John's this year last week in the regionals.

I saw Purke. He is a very polished and advanced pitcher for his age. He kept his fastball and breaking ball low in the zone the entire game and showed good command. His velocity was a little down from were it was advertised when he was in HS (maybe a little tired?), but his delivery was clean and easy. Not a power pitcher, but has good stuff and throws strikes. I would expect him to move quickly in pro ball. No brainer first round guy. I don't think he's got the upside of a future ace, though. More of a 2-3 guy; also doesn't have a large frame to grow into and his stuff isn't powerful enough. Not an innings eater, but he throws strikes so should be pitch efficient. I know it sounds crazy, but had Purke thrown like he did vs. Texas on Friday against a major league team he would have had a quality start. Very polished and easy.

The best college pitching prospect next year is going to be Gerrit Cole. Not as polished as Purke, but big time arm strength. He's a front of the rotation, power RHP. Kind of risky prospect, though. There weren't any college arms like him in this last class. I think Anthony Rendon will be the #1 college prospect going into next year, but Cole also is of the top prospect ilk.

Rendon will be the top prize, but for a power hitter, he's really quite smallish. Natural hitter, great bat speed and swing, but he's undersized for a major league 3B. He's not much of an athlete, either. He's going to be talked up a ton, and I like him a lot as a prospect, but he's not as slam-dunk of a 1st overall guy as some might say. Might sound like nit-picking, but size and athleticism are important and he comes up short when compared to major league athletes. I'm just sayin'.

There's a LOT of good 1st round college arms out there for the 2011 draft. Pomeranz would be behind Cole, in my opinion, but I think is right there with the other guys.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby Rocky55 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:07 pm

I'd take Rendon. :s_yes


Rendon's not big but he is around the same size as Henry Aaron. Big enough to hit some dingers. Also an excellent fielder. Could be our Longoria.

Cole is probably(definitely) the #1 pitcher going into the season. The most attractive thing about
Cole is that he turned down the Yankers. After losing so many players to them, going back at least to
Chambliss, it'd be great to sign Cole after NY couldn't.

Back to draftee's, I finally read the transcript of the draft chat on PG. Some of their stuff is free but I'm not sure about this. The interesting thing to me was that Rawnsley comment after KC took Colon. He said to remember when Colon was picked this year when Wolters heard his name picked later.

Maybe it's just me but that sounds like a Colon/Wolters comp. Not bad for a 3rd rounder.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby JP_Frost » Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:19 pm

If we can sign Wolters.

Man, I can't wait untill we hear some announcements. I know it'll be somewhere in August and it's killing me. I'm too impatient.
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby dnosco » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:46 pm

The Plain Dealer is reporting we signed Jordan Cooper and Diego Seastruck (I know I am going to have trouble with that name over the next few years).

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ss ... _stra.html

Tony?
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Re: 2010 Draft Signing Thread

Postby jellis » Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:07 pm

cooper is interesting as he was a sophomore eligible
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