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Arizona Fall League Thread

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:44 pm

Wow. The pitchers are getting lit up out there.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby gotribe31 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:08 am

I think (hope!) its a byproduct of the unfamiliarity with catchers and pitching coaches down there. Its easy to get a little out of whack mechanically or mentally without someone who knows you to help straighten things out.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:23 pm

For all those down on Lofgren, I still ain't giving up on him yet. Been a VERY tough year for him emotionally....which makes me wonder why he is even in the AFL. He needs to be home and hopefully come back next spring ready to go.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby gotribe31 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:43 pm

Consigliere wrote:For all those down on Lofgren, I still ain't giving up on him yet. Been a VERY tough year for him emotionally....which makes me wonder why he is even in the AFL. He needs to be home and hopefully come back next spring ready to go.


I agree, as you see in todays AFL article. This is a guy who was pretty much a concensus top-5 guy in the organization last year. We are nowhere near a crossroads with him yet...lets see if he can work things out.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby toledobuck » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:28 pm

It appears that Mills and Hodges have been named to the AFL Rising Starts all star game on 10/27. That is nice to see them get reognized among the elite young talent that is current playing in the AFL. See the rosters for each AFL All star team in link below.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/winterleagues/stars/2008/
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby gotribe31 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:06 pm

toledobuck wrote:It appears that Mills and Hodges have been named to the AFL Rising Starts all star game on 10/27. That is nice to see them get reognized among the elite young talent that is current playing in the AFL. See the rosters for each AFL All star team in link below.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/winterleagues/stars/2008/


Unconfirmed reports have Chuck Lofgren being invited as the pitcher for the home run derby before the game :D
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:21 pm

Mills just hit his first HR of the fall season - a shot to straight away CF (400+ FT).
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby endlesssleeper » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:43 am

Lofgren continues to implode. 2.0 innings, 4 hits, 4 runs, all of them earned, 1 walk. Two of those hits were home runs. He now sports a hefty 35.31 era. Looks like Wagner had a bit of a rough outing as well, going two innings and giving up two earned. The pitching is ABYSMAL right now.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:21 am

The handling of Lofgren by the Indians right now is embarassing. I rarely go off on them, but I am about to.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:55 am

Maybe they're just trying to show how bad he is right now so that other teams won't bother taking him in the Rule V draft should the Tribe not roster him, lol


But yeah I agree, no point in throwing him out there right now. Bring him back this winter and work on him in spring training. Make a decision if the bullpen or the rotation is where he'll be and stick to it.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby Duane Kuiper » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:57 am

If a team sends a player to the AFL do they have to play him the whole schedule? If not, do they need to replace him with someone else? That maybe why Lofgren is still there.

But yes I agree he shouldn't be there.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:09 am

No, you can always remove a player. Each AFL team carries a couple extra players in case of an injury or a guy needing to be removed.

It's up to the Indians though to decide whether to keep Lofgren there.....and appears they're sticking with him...
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby lofgren09 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:46 pm

The handling of Chuck does piss me off this whole year, because he is a good friend of mine, and someone who went 17-5, 2 years ago shouldnt be treated like as Kellen Winslow said "A piece of meat". Everyone can bash him because his ERA is 35.00. But this wasn't his year in the first place. The personal issues have affected him greatly, and I read on the Indians review that he was injured, which is news to me.Then you have clowns heckling him in Erie when he imploded for that 8 runs in 1/3 of an inning or whatever it was. I don't know why they sent him down there. After he took off that 2 and a half weeks in the middle of the season, he did good. They should of given them a free pass. His line yesterday wasnt as bad as it showed. He basically made 2 bad pitches and it costed him 4 runs.Nobody seems to talk about how he got 3 outs in a row, stuck out 2 in the 7th, and held a guy who go a double off of him from scoring in the 8th. Most of his walks and hits have come with 2 strikes in the count. I hope someone in the orgainzation will work with him, like Radinsky, because he has so much talent and its getting wasted.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby jellis » Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:53 pm

lofgren09 wrote:The handling of Chuck does piss me off this whole year, because he is a good friend of mine, and someone who went 17-5, 2 years ago shouldnt be treated like as Kellen Winslow said "A piece of meat". Everyone can bash him because his ERA is 35.00. But this wasn't his year in the first place. The personal issues have affected him greatly, and I read on the Indians review that he was injured, which is news to me.Then you have clowns heckling him in Erie when he imploded for that 8 runs in 1/3 of an inning or whatever it was. I don't know why they sent him down there. After he took off that 2 and a half weeks in the middle of the season, he did good. They should of given them a free pass. His line yesterday wasnt as bad as it showed. He basically made 2 bad pitches and it costed him 4 runs.Nobody seems to talk about how he got 3 outs in a row, stuck out 2 in the 7th, and held a guy who go a double off of him from scoring in the 8th. Most of his walks and hits have come with 2 strikes in the count. I hope someone in the orgainzation will work with him, like Radinsky, because he has so much talent and its getting wasted.



I really feel like hes getting douched now to lower his stock, and its a shame because he is being treated like an asset, but at the end of the day it is a business and it might suck how hes being left out in the wind but that's the way the game works. I hope he gets straightened out and that everyone ends up fine, but right now nothing seems to to be going right even the scouts there say velocity and the movement on his pitches have gown down or regressed and that seems like it would be more mental then physical, but either way I know I am rooting for him never heard a single bit of bad of press about the guy and even in a rough year like this he still is trying every time which says a lot about his character
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:47 pm

lofgren09 wrote:The handling of Chuck does piss me off this whole year, because he is a good friend of mine, and someone who went 17-5, 2 years ago shouldnt be treated like as Kellen Winslow said "A piece of meat". Everyone can bash him because his ERA is 35.00. But this wasn't his year in the first place. The personal issues have affected him greatly, and I read on the Indians review that he was injured, which is news to me.Then you have clowns heckling him in Erie when he imploded for that 8 runs in 1/3 of an inning or whatever it was. I don't know why they sent him down there. After he took off that 2 and a half weeks in the middle of the season, he did good. They should of given them a free pass. His line yesterday wasnt as bad as it showed. He basically made 2 bad pitches and it costed him 4 runs.Nobody seems to talk about how he got 3 outs in a row, stuck out 2 in the 7th, and held a guy who go a double off of him from scoring in the 8th. Most of his walks and hits have come with 2 strikes in the count. I hope someone in the orgainzation will work with him, like Radinsky, because he has so much talent and its getting wasted.


Couldn't agree more.

Chuck has been of sound body all year and has not been injurred.....but he has not been of sound mind. Just something that is not my place to talk about. He's doing his best to salvage what has been a VERY rough season. I think once he goes home and spends the next few months with his family, he'll come back re-charged next spring. I'm a big believer in him, and I know he has slid completely off the prospect map for a lot of people.....but I still very much consider him a prospect.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:53 pm

jellis wrote:I really feel like hes getting douched now to lower his stock, and its a shame because he is being treated like an asset, but at the end of the day it is a business...


I'll disagree with this. In no way do I think the Indians are setting Lofgren up for failure simply to lower his stock so he is not picked in the Rule 5 Draft. That goes completely against what player development is all about.

Even if not rostered and with his poor performance, he will get strong consideration for selection and may even be picked. Teams may say take the $50K gamble that by spring he is back and if not the gamble only loses them $25K.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby jellis » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:39 pm

Consigliere wrote:
jellis wrote:I really feel like hes getting douched now to lower his stock, and its a shame because he is being treated like an asset, but at the end of the day it is a business...


I'll disagree with this. In no way do I think the Indians are setting Lofgren up for failure simply to lower his stock so he is not picked in the Rule 5 Draft. That goes completely against what player development is all about.

Even if not rostered and with his poor performance, he will get strong consideration for selection and may even be picked. Teams may say take the $50K gamble that by spring he is back and if not the gamble only loses them $25K.



when a player has had a season like lofgren and also has had some major issues. (I have no idea but it sounds serious) Then you send him to a show case league for top prospects when hes has little success all year aren't they pretty much setting him up to fail. it seems to me the best thing for Chuck would have been to just end the season for him let him just get the mental health time. If anything getting hit hard in AFL has to be messing with his head more, and self doubt might be creeping in which is about the worst thing for a pitcher. Hes a great talent but I think the Indians have to a degree if unintentionally set him up to fail
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby Duane Kuiper » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:13 pm

IMO Lofgren is at the AFL because he only threw 85 innings this year. They don't want to have to limit his IP next year because of a lack of IP this year.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:17 pm

Whilst I agree with the general concept of what you're saying Duane, I'm not sure that they would've put him in the bullpen if that was the case - he's not likely to get many innings in working out of the Surprise pen.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:28 pm

Talked to someone in the org last night about Lofgren. Yes, he is there to get some innings. Also, his fastball velo has not dropped. He is sitting at 88-92 MPH as always. I think there is a misconception that he sits 94-95....he doesn't. He occassionally tops out at 93 94 or 95, but he usually sits low 90s.

He was also suppoed to go to Arizona and start, but to the org and his surprise he is in relief.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby lofgren09 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:49 pm

Yea Tony when do you think it started going downhill for Chuck? Do you think it was middle of the season last year after the Futures game?
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby lofgren09 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:10 pm

No question Chuck has more important things on his mind then baseball. Even his regular season as a starter he did not get much run production. I remember one outing he had pitched 7 innings against Erie I believe and allowed 1 run, struck out 9 and lost 2-1. The Indians telling him to stay in the pen didnt help his confidence either. The news just piled up and it was too much to handle. Especially finishing last year with a 12-7 record last year, should of been in consideration for a Buffalo starting spot. I know that pissed him off, being stuck in Akron. I know Scotty Lewis was pissed off as well but he ended up with the Indians, and I know Chuck wanted that fate this year. Too many things period it was overwhelming.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:12 pm

lofgren09 wrote:Yea Tony when do you think it started going downhill for Chuck? Do you think it was middle of the season last year after the Futures game?


I have to do my best to tip-toe around this one, but I will say I don't recall a point last season when things started to go sour for him. His numbers in Akron were nowhere what they were like the previous year in Kinston, but he was also amazingly consistent from April through August where he was just solid and performed well for his age at AA. Something happened between the end of last season and the start of the 2008 season, because he was all out of sorts from the beginning this year. I am not sure if the personal issue he is dealing with goes as far back as last offseason, but it could have. Although in spring training I thought he looked good in the 2-3 times I saw him pitch.

I will likely get the chance to talk to Chuck soon to get his thoughts on this past season and all he has been through on and off the field. Great young man, a fierce competitor, and tough.....I still think he comes back from this.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby lofgren09 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:16 pm

Issue does go back as far as last season. I believe he can rebound as well. I hope you get a chance to talk to him from a media view.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby npc29 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:18 am

That's a shame.. You hate to see a guy's potential derailed by off the field stuff. Hope he can get it together next year.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:21 pm

Mills 2-for-3 and Hodges 1-for-3 with 2BB in the All-Star game yesterday.


How about Tommy Hanson?? 3IP, 0H, 0R, 2BB, 7K in the All-Star game after throwing 8.1 scoreless innings so far this fall (1H, 3BB, 14K).

No wonder the Braves don't want to trade him (according to Frank Wren) for Peavy.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:28 pm

It's the Wes Hodges and Beau Mills show so far today.

Rafters lead 3-0 in the 3rd.

Hodges went deep in the first and then he and Mills went back-to-back in the 3rd.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.js ... n_surwin_1
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:29 pm

Tomlin banged around again, this time in relief.

Allowed 3 unearned runs in his first inning of work off 4 hits - all 3 runs were unearned because of a leadoff error. The proceeded to allow another 4 runs in his 2nd inning without recording an out, capped off with a 3-run HR.

Final line: - 1IP, 8H, 7R, 4ER, 0BB, 1K

Ew.... ERA now 12.60
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:54 pm

I have never, ever seen such HUGE inflated stat lines for games by pitchers as we have been seeing with these Indians guys. Good Lord! Is the ball on steroids? :s_sarcastic
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby lofgren09 » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:07 pm

Lofgren pitched well today. His line
1 1/3 innings,3 hits, 6 runs, 1 earned, 2 K's, and 2 BB, in which both walks he had the count full. did give up a home run, would of got out of the inning if there wasn't 2 infield errors. took over for Dodgers prospect Orenduff who got torched up for 8 runs in 2 innings, including 4 hrs. Lofgren threw a lot of strikes and looked for the most part in control. Good news. and he lowed his ERA to 28.59.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:04 pm

Jesus. What is with this Surprise team? They are giving up runs by the bucket loads. Every pitcher seems to be giving up 6-8 runs in 1-2 innings, and some of that is from some poor defense.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:06 am

ha, are a lot of guys playing out of position maybe? This is pretty crazy.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby gotribe31 » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:16 pm

I have never been to the Surprise stadium...are the fences at 250 feet? :)
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:32 pm

Rafters pitching gives up another 12 runs today..... Stiller allowed 2ER in 0.2IP.

Hodges continues to rake.... 3-for-5, 2 2B, 4RBI to raise his average to .385 - plus he's hitting a healthy .500 (11-for-22) with RISP.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:13 am

Rafters pitching allowed another 16 runs last night....... 6 of them by Lofgren without recording an out (0IP, 3H, 6R, 4ER, 2BB).

Stiller allowed 2 runs in 1.2IP.

On the plus side, Hodges was 2-for-5 with his 5th HR. He's now hitting .393 with a 1.134OPS and his 20RBI (in 14 games) lead the league.

http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp ... n_surwin_1
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby endlesssleeper » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:24 am

dazindiansfanuk wrote:Rafters pitching allowed another 16 runs last night....... 6 of them by Lofgren without recording an out (0IP, 3H, 6R, 4ER, 2BB).

Stiller allowed 2 runs in 1.2IP.

On the plus side, Hodges was 2-for-5 with his 5th HR. He's now hitting .393 with a 1.134OPS and his 20RBI (in 14 games) lead the league.

http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp ... n_surwin_1


I can't even comprehend how bad Chuck is doing. It seems like you could throw the ball up there underhand and have better numbers than he has.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby carnegie44115 » Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:59 pm

My guess is its the command of his fastball, he has walked a lot of guys and not setting up your secondary pitches is going to hurt him.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby jellis » Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:03 pm

carnegie44115 wrote:My guess is its the command of his fastball, he has walked a lot of guys and not setting up your secondary pitches is going to hurt him.



yeah there has to be zero command, something is obviously not right with his head right now since it sounds like hes physically fine, and I really hope this doesn't ruin him as each outing has to make his confidence worse
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby MickS » Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:40 pm

I actually hope Lofgren continues to suck until after the Rule 5 draft. If so, we won't devote a roster spot to him and he's not likely to be taken.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby lofgren09 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:42 pm

Tony, how and when will Chuck do this interview that you are talking about?
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:13 pm

lofgren09 wrote:Tony, how and when will Chuck do this interview that you are talking about?


We are set to do it sometime next week with my goal to post it as an article the following Monday (Nov 17th).
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:02 pm

Tomlin has really bounced back from his back-to-back rough outings.

After 4 scoreless his last time out he's spun another 5 scoreless so far today.

Hodges 1-for-3 with his 6th HR

Mills 2-for-3

Head 2-for-3

Rodriguez with an 0-for-3 so far though.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.js ... n_perwin_1
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:34 pm

Speaking of Tomlin, he is in cue for an upcoming radio show appearance.....but anyway, good to see him bounce back. He is someone who is very interesting to watch next year. Not the greatest talent pitching-wise, but gets results. His athleticism and pitches remind me some of Westbrook (minus the sinker).
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby dnosco » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:42 pm

Agreed on Tomlin. Could have a role as a middle reliever, swing guy down the road. Not dominant stuff but if he keeps learning his craft, could be a cheap alternative who could be used in a variety of roles due to his apparently rubber arm.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby jellis » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:29 pm

Consigliere wrote:Speaking of Tomlin, he is in cue for an upcoming radio show appearance.....but anyway, good to see him bounce back. He is someone who is very interesting to watch next year. Not the greatest talent pitching-wise, but gets results. His athleticism and pitches remind me some of Westbrook (minus the sinker).



thats a bit scary I mean the sinker is what makes westbrook effective, does Tomlin have a plus type pitch. I just wonder if hes closer to a mastny then a westbrook
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby lofgren09 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:11 pm

Lofgren with an inning of no hit no walk ball. 7 pitches got him the 3 outs.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby gorman8621 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:41 pm

lofgren09 wrote:Lofgren with an inning of no hit no walk ball. 7 pitches got him the 3 outs.


Great to hear...thanks for the report! We're all cheering for Chuck to get back to his old self.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:29 am

http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/2 ... n-and.html

Third baseman Wes Hodges has been hot of late in the Arizona Fall League (AFL) and has been one of the best hitters this year out in the AFL. Hodges has 10 RBI over his last 5 games and over his last 7 games he is 14-for-33 (.424) with 4 2B, 4 HR & 14 RBI. For the year in Arizona he is hitting .371 (26-for-70) with 6 2B, 6 HR and 23 RBI in 16 games. He is 10th in the AFL in average, tied for 2nd in HR, 2nd in RBI, 5th in slugging % (.714) and tied for 2nd in extra base hits (12).
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby Duane Kuiper » Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:36 am

Sadly. Hodges also has 6 errors in 17 games. That makes 34 in 150 games this year.

He is going to have to fix that or he won't be a 3B.
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Re: Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby jellis » Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:18 pm

Duane Kuiper wrote:Sadly. Hodges also has 6 errors in 17 games. That makes 34 in 150 games this year.

He is going to have to fix that or he won't be a 3B.



I still think he wont end up at 3B, hes going to hit well just at 1B or maybe OF, I think hes the main spec candidate to get traded just so you an sell high while hes still being touted as a 3B
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