Arizona Fall League Thread

by **gotribe31** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:09 am

With the AFL starting today, figured we might as well get a thread going. Brantley's status still TBD, but I think that every game he misses down there makes it less and less likely he gets to play. Still have some great prospects down there, including Mills, Hodges, Sipp, Lofgren etc.

by **TonyIBI** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:57 am

Great job with the preview.

Also, FYI, Brantley and Stiller will be taking part in the Indians Winter Development Program at Progressive Field in January.

by **gotribe31** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:05 am

Ahhh, no way to welcome a player to the organization like bringing him to the shores of Lake Erie in January!

by **dnosco** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:09 pm

Great article! This year, more than others, I think the Indians are showcasing these prospects for potential trades. This is especially true with the position prospects. All of them played full seasons at the positions that they are projected to stay at, for the most part.

The pitchers, on the other hand, are classic AFL guys: prospects who are coming back from injury or are perceived to still be on the steep part of their development curve who could use an extra oomph from a few more innings, especially against good competition. Some of them may even be candidates for trades or inclusion on the 40 man roster, again, classic reasons for guys showing up on AFL teams.

by **gotribe31** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:25 pm

dnosco wrote:Great article! This year, more than others, I think the Indians are showcasing these prospects for potential trades. This is especially true with the position prospects. All of them played full seasons at the positions that they are projected to stay at, for the most part.

The pitchers, on the other hand, are classic AFL guys: prospects who are coming back from injury or are perceived to still be on the steep part of their development curve who could use an extra oomph from a few more innings, especially against good competition. Some of them may even be candidates for trades or inclusion on the 40 man roster, again, classic reasons for guys showing up on AFL teams.

Thanks!

I'm really interested to see what Rodriguez shows us. I love his attitude and think the talent is there, baseball is just a funny game and sometimes hitters struggle. I see him as a prime bounceback candidate next year.

Sipp fits the AFL template to a T, and I think the innings there will really help him out. A change of scenery certinally can't hurt Lofgren. It will be great to see if Stiller and Wagner can build on their success from this past season.

by **gotribe31** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:39 pm

Hodges batting 3rd at 3B
Rodriguez batting 9th at 2B

No Mills in the starting lineup. Phil Hughes is pitching against Surprise today, should be an interesting game!

by **DAM** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:26 pm

MLB Gameday has the game up FYI. 91 degrees and sunny, sounds beautiful.

by **dazindiansfanuk** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:42 pm

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.js ... n_perwin_1

Hodges grounds into a first inning DP against Hughes.

by **TonyIBI** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:47 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2008_10_07_surwin_perwin_1

Hodges grounds into a first inning DP against Hughes.

Take him out of the Top 10! He is garbage! :lol:

by **gotribe31** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:55 pm

Consigliere wrote:
dazindiansfanuk wrote:http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2008_10_07_surwin_perwin_1

Hodges grounds into a first inning DP against Hughes.

Take him out of the Top 10! He is garbage!

Gotta love Cleveland sports!

91 and sunny...man, I'm jealous. Its going to be awfuly hard not to take a week off and go watch some baseball and golf this October.

by **gotribe31** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:56 pm

Matt Wieters grounds into double play, second baseman Carlos Triunfel to shortstop Chris Valaika to first baseman Rhyne Hughes. Nolan Reimold out at 2nd.

Make Angelos an offer for him ASAP! His stock will never be lower!!!!!!!

by **TonyIBI** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:18 pm

Wieters and Hodges are bums.

by **Jennifer** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:41 pm

Consigliere wrote:
dazindiansfanuk wrote:http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2008_10_07_surwin_perwin_1

Hodges grounds into a first inning DP against Hughes.

Take him out of the Top 10! He is garbage!

Pretty hasty for him having just 1 AB. Still it turns out you were right since he just flyed out to make him 0 for 2.

by **gotribe31** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:47 pm

Consigliere wrote:Wieters and Hodges are bums.

Josh Rodriguez walked...lets deal him straight up for Wieters.

by **TonyIBI** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:06 pm

Jennifer wrote:
Consigliere wrote:
dazindiansfanuk wrote:http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2008_10_07_surwin_perwin_1

Hodges grounds into a first inning DP against Hughes.

Take him out of the Top 10! He is garbage!
Pretty hasty for him having just 1 AB. Still it turns out you were right since he just flyed out to make him 0 for 2.

Trade him quick before he is worth nothing more than a hot dog vendor in return. :mrgreen:

by **DAM** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:42 pm

DAM wrote:MLB Gameday has the game up FYI. 91 degrees and sunny, sounds beautiful.

Hmm, I put the link on the word "Gameday" but it doesn't show as a link, am I doing something wrong? No use linking if no one knows.

by **TonyIBI** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:51 pm

Wagner with 1.1 scoreless innings.

Hodges 0-4 with a K
J-Rod 0-2 with a BB and K

by **dnosco** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:34 pm

Consigliere wrote:Wagner with 1.1 scoreless innings.

Hodges 0-4 with a K
J-Rod 0-2 with a BB and K

J Rod ended up 1-3 with a walk. Hope that his confidence stays up.

Good beginning for Wagner. Remember, he was pretty highly rated before he tanked his junior year. He appears to be back to his sophomore form.

by **dazindiansfanuk** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:01 pm

Tomlin getting the start for the Rafters today - 2 scoreless innings thus far.

Head is starting in LF and is 1-for-1.

Mills still to get into a game.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.js ... n_surwin_1

by **dazindiansfanuk** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:36 pm

Lofgren is on in relief of Tomlin after 3 scoreless innings for Josh.

Not a good start for Lofgren - 10 pitches, 2 strikes, back-to-back walks to the first 2 hitters. The falls behind 2-0 to Chris Valaika before giving up a ground rule double on a fastball right down the middle..

Looks like his control problems are still well and truly there.

by **gotribe31** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:41 pm

Ugh....Lofgren is brutal right now. Starting to wish they didn't send him down there.

by **petes999** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:51 pm

I am glad they sent Lofgren. If he continues to bomb, why protect him on the 40. At this rate, his mechanics and psyche must be all messed up where no one will touch him with a 10 foot pole (even if he is a 95 mph lefty).

I think over time he will get it straightened out. He did well up until he got to Akron. I think there are too many voices in his head where he would benefit taking 3 months off and then sitting down with Scott and just doing batting practice (down the middle) to get his motion consistent before trying to start to hit the corners.

Yet, if Wagner continues to pitch well, we know that we should look at adding him to the 40 man list.

by **dazindiansfanuk** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:56 pm

Well, a disaster for Lofgren.

7 batters faced, 3 walks, 3 hits, 6 runs allowed, only 1 out recorded - 29 pitches, only 11 strikes.

Not good.

by **jellis** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:17 pm

maybe its time to at least think a little bit about making him a hitter, not saying do it got to see if he can bounce back but maybe time to consider it a little

by **webba2000** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:22 am

No Tony SIPP?
Wasn't he supposed to be there?

by **gotribe31** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:18 am

webba2000 wrote:No Tony SIPP?
Wasn't he supposed to be there?

Hmmm...Sipp was supposed to be there, and was on the roster less than a week ago. Now I see he isn't... http://www.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp ... os&cid=527. Looks like he was switched out for Josh Tomlin. Tony, any ideas? Sipp isn't having arm problems again, is he??

by **TonyIBI** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:49 am

No issues with Sipp. He had been trying to get off the AFL roster since it was announced in August. He had said he would rather go pitch in the DR this offseason to face some new challenges. I touched on it here:

http://indianstopprospects.blogspot.com ... ck-on.html

Since Sipp has only thrown 33.2 innings this year in combined time at Winter Haven, Kinston, and Akron, so the Indians are sending him to the Arizona Fall League (AFL) this October to get some more innings in and make up for some of the lost innings from this season. Sipp, though, is trying to get out of his assignment to the AFL and instead is going to try and pitch in the Dominican Republic this winter.

"I don't even know if I am going now [to the AFL]," said Sipp. "I was trying to talk about going over to the Dominican Republic, so I don't know if I will go to the fall league for a little while and then go over to the Dominican Republic or what. I've been to the fall league already, and I know what that is like. I don't know what the Dominican is like and it is just something different. There is no reason at all for going there just that the competition is a little better, and I just want to experience something different."

by **gotribe31** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:14 pm

Knowledge retention was never my strongest suit...I read that last week, and then forgot about it and immediately assumed the worst about Sipp. I guess thats the Cleveland way

by **dazindiansfanuk** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:35 pm

Kind of curious how Tomlin was allowed to replace Sipp.

As each team is only allowed 1 player below AA to participate and Tomlin spent the year in Kinston (except 1 AAA start) this year and Beau Mills is already on the Surprise roster it just seems strange that he was allowed to go.

Does his 1 AAA start of the year give them a loop-hole to add him? Or would the Indians have needed special permission to make the move?

by **gotribe31** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:14 pm

Mills, Hodges and Rodriguez all in the lineup today. Mills hitting 3rd.

by **MadThinker88** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:06 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:Kind of curious how Tomlin was allowed to replace Sipp.

As each team is only allowed 1 player below AA to participate and Tomlin spent the year in Kinston (except 1 AAA start) this year and Beau Mills is already on the Surprise roster it just seems strange that he was allowed to go.

Does his 1 AAA start of the year give them a loop-hole to add him? Or would the Indians have needed special permission to make the move?

I understood to have another pitcher come in, they had to replace a pitcher. Maybe its broken down between pitchers and non-pitchers.

by **TonyIBI** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:32 am

RHP Neil Wagner has a blog on the AFL:

http://aflindians.mlblogs.com/archives/ ... ut_me.html

by **toledobuck** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:07 am

I do not understand the lack of playing time for B. Mills in the AFL. He is a pretty highly regarded prospect and him sitting on the bench for every game has minimal affect on his long time play. If the Tribe would have known this, it would have been better to have him pulled for Brantley or even put Mills on the taxi squad instead of Head.

by **jellis** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:16 pm

toledobuck wrote:I do not understand the lack of playing time for B. Mills in the AFL. He is a pretty highly regarded prospect and him sitting on the bench for every game has minimal affect on his long time play. If the Tribe would have known this, it would have been better to have him pulled for Brantley or even put Mills on the taxi squad instead of Head.

its all thanks to the fact he played at A last year, higher level guys get more playing time, but your right they should have known this would happen and it does make him a curious choice for the league

by **dazindiansfanuk** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:18 pm

toledobuck wrote:I do not understand the lack of playing time for B. Mills in the AFL. He is a pretty highly regarded prospect and him sitting on the bench for every game has minimal affect on his long time play. If the Tribe would have known this, it would have been better to have him pulled for Brantley or even put Mills on the taxi squad instead of Head.

The managers in the AFL are understandably trying to win games and whilst Mills is a legit top prospect he's still behind a lot of the competition in the league.

Mills spent all of last year in High-A, whilst the majority of players in the league are from the AA and AAA levels.

As Indians fans we want to see him play, but I think the wise move for the coaching staff to do is to pick the best spots for him.

by **GhostofTedCox** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:27 pm

If Mills is just a spot player in the AFL, I wonder if they could send him to Hawaii. Then they could open up a spot in the AFL for Brantley.

by **TonyIBI** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:38 pm

The AFL is a prospect league and much hyped....but the big problem with it is many players and pitchers do not get in enough. It is one big reason why Sipp did not want to go there.

The thing with Mills, as has been stated, is there are three other 1B on the roster in Brandon Snyder, Justin Smoak and Chad Tracy. All four deserve to play and there is only one spot.

by **gotribe31** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:05 pm

Consigliere wrote:The AFL is a prospect league and much hyped....but the big problem with it is many players and pitchers do not get in enough. It is one big reason why Sipp did not want to go there.

The thing with Mills, as has been stated, is there are three other 1B on the roster in Brandon Snyder, Justin Smoak and Chad Tracy. All four deserve to play and there is only one spot.

The toughest thing with the AFL is that clubs just concentrate on who they want to see down there, with little regard for roster composition. It worked out for Josh Rodriguez, who should get a lot of time at 2B because no true 2B were sent. Works out much worse for Mills, who is one of several 1B. The good news is Mills had plenty of AB's in Kinston, and even a few dozen AB's in AZ against quality pitching will help for next year.

by **TonyIBI** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:16 pm

Mills in the lineup tonight. 2 walks so far.

by **dazindiansfanuk** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:58 am

Another strong performance by Tomlin against advanced competition (4IP, 1R, 0BB, 4K).

No walks to 9Ks thus far in 7IP..... a continuation of the excellent control he's shown all season (17BB, 112K)

by **dazindiansfanuk** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:24 am

Well, I didn't think it was possible, but Lofgren actually raised his ERA yesterday and it now stands at 49.50!!

0.2IP, 2H, 4ER, 2BB, 0K

They just have to get him out of the league - it's not doing him any good!

by **gotribe31** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:58 am

At this point, throwing more innings really can't hurt, and may be the only way to sort it out. His status as a prospect has fallen to the point where we wouldn't get anything for him anyway, and maybe he will stumble across some mysterious mechanical flaw that he can fix before Spring. This just goes to prove my long-standing theory that left-handed pitchers are all crazy.

by **MadThinker88** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:08 am

One (and possibly only) good thing out of all these struggles is it has knocked Chuck's prospect status so far down I think he will slide through the Rule 5 draft unprotected and undrafted now.

Had Chuck shown some life or rebound, the chances of his getting taken would have gone up.

by **TonyIBI** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:20 pm

Lofgren has nil chance of being protected. He may get drafted still on a whim, but I see no way he sticks with a club after spring training unless the Indians complete a trade.

by **gotribe31** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:30 pm

Someone may take a chance on a lefty that throws in the low-mid 90's (if he can do that anymore), but I don't see ANY chance of him sticking on a 25-man roster for the entire season.

by **dazindiansfanuk** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:43 pm

Lofgren with another horrible performance yesterday allowing another 4 runs in 1/3 of an inning.

I understand the feelings of those who think Lofgren needs as many innings as possible, but at what point does this really start to become confidence shattering?

Right handers are hitting .778 against him with an .857OBP.

He's allowed 15 runs in 2.1 innings.

This is just doing him absolutely no good. Personally, I think they should just send him home and give him a couple of months away from the game to get his head straight.

by **MadThinker88** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:48 pm

Get Lofgren a bat and take him to the batting cage.
I think he needs to release some frustrations and I'd rather he do it in a constructive manner then hurting himself by punching a wall or someone else.

by **carnegie44115** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:20 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:Lofgren with another horrible performance yesterday allowing another 4 runs in 1/3 of an inning.

I understand the feelings of those who think Lofgren needs as many innings as possible, but at what point does this really start to become confidence shattering?

Right handers are hitting .778 against him with an .857OBP.

He's allowed 15 runs in 2.1 innings.

This is just doing him absolutely no good. Personally, I think they should just send him home and give him a couple of months away from the game to get his head straight.

Now is horrible performances the possibility of trying to work on things, but I guess that can really go for an ERA of 20 or less not 50.

by **TonyIBI** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:42 pm

Well, I think the Indians are leaving no stone unturned here, crossing the T's and dotting the I's, to make sure NO ONE picks him up in Rule 5.

Mission accomplished. :lol:

by **dazindiansfanuk** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:40 pm

Tough night for Indians prospects tonights.

Tomlin worked 2+ allowing 9 runs..... he faced 7 batters in the 3rd without recording an out.

Stiller then worked 1.1 innings allowing 7 runs, but only 2 were earned on 6 hits (inc 2HR) and the unearned runs were as a result of his own throwing error.

Rafters trail 20-1 in the 6th. Ugh

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