Prospect rankings 2012-2013

[GeronimoSon]

...At the MLB level, I think he can run, throw and potentially field well enough to be adequate, but his only potential plus tool is his bat....

..and all this at the tender age of 18, playing full season ball in Lake County.. yep. a plus bat tool for a middle infielder.. definitely a prospect worth watching..

As far as the comparisons to ronnie belliard and the casey kotchman reference.. and joel guzman.. and birminghams razor shines delmon young ian stewart and another ten or fifteen names that have nothing to do with Dorsyss Paulino. That's nothing more than textual diarrhea or a distraction from the subject at hand: the empirical tools, skills and projection of Dorsyss Paulino. You don't think he's much.. yet, he's considered at least the third best prospect in the Indians system behind two A level, can't miss, going to be ML stars. And just like with Francisco Lindor, big dollars were used to make sure Dorsyss' talent is developed with Chief Wahoo on his sleeve.. At the end of day, this kid brings the sizzle to the steak... he's the goods..

& yes.. it's a good idea to keep watching him in the minors.. but don't count on him being there too long.. and certainly not projecting him to be hitting .250 at AAA. he'll be playing at the corner of Carnegie and Ontario..

[OhioBaseball]

...At the MLB level, I think he can run, throw and potentially field well enough to be adequate, but his only potential plus tool is his bat....

..and all this at the tender age of 18, playing full season ball in Lake County.. yep. a plus bat tool for a middle infielder.. definitely a prospect worth watching..

As far as the comparisons to ronnie belliard and the casey kotchman reference.. and joel guzman.. and birminghams razor shines delmon young ian stewart and another ten or fifteen names that have nothing to do with Dorsyss Paulino. That's nothing more than textual diarrhea or a distraction from the subject at hand: the empirical tools, skills and projection of Dorsyss Paulino. You don't think he's much.. yet, he's considered at least the third best prospect in the Indians system behind two A level, can't miss, going to be ML stars. And just like with Francisco Lindor, big dollars were used to make sure Dorsyss' talent is developed with Chief Wahoo on his sleeve.. At the end of day, this kid brings the sizzle to the steak... he's the goods..

& yes.. it's a good idea to keep watching him in the minors.. but don't count on him being there too long.. and certainly not projecting him to be hitting .250 at AAA. he'll be playing at the corner of Carnegie and Ontario..

Wow, you really don't understand anything I said.

[GeronimoSon]

...At the MLB level, I think he can run, throw and potentially field well enough to be adequate, but his only potential plus tool is his bat....

..and all this at the tender age of 18, playing full season ball in Lake County.. yep. a plus bat tool for a middle infielder.. definitely a prospect worth watching..

As far as the comparisons to ronnie belliard and the casey kotchman reference.. and joel guzman.. and birminghams razor shines delmon young ian stewart and another ten or fifteen names that have nothing to do with Dorsyss Paulino. That's nothing more than textual diarrhea or a distraction from the subject at hand: the empirical tools, skills and projection of Dorsyss Paulino. You don't think he's much.. yet, he's considered at least the third best prospect in the Indians system behind two A level, can't miss, going to be ML stars. And just like with Francisco Lindor, big dollars were used to make sure Dorsyss' talent is developed with Chief Wahoo on his sleeve.. At the end of day, this kid brings the sizzle to the steak... he's the goods..

& yes.. it's a good idea to keep watching him in the minors.. but don't count on him being there too long.. and certainly not projecting him to be hitting .250 at AAA. he'll be playing at the corner of Carnegie and Ontario..

Wow, you really don't understand anything I said.

Wow you don't even listen to yourself..

[OhioBaseball]

...At the MLB level, I think he can run, throw and potentially field well enough to be adequate, but his only potential plus tool is his bat....

..and all this at the tender age of 18, playing full season ball in Lake County.. yep. a plus bat tool for a middle infielder.. definitely a prospect worth watching..

As far as the comparisons to ronnie belliard and the casey kotchman reference.. and joel guzman.. and birminghams razor shines delmon young ian stewart and another ten or fifteen names that have nothing to do with Dorsyss Paulino. That's nothing more than textual diarrhea or a distraction from the subject at hand: the empirical tools, skills and projection of Dorsyss Paulino. You don't think he's much.. yet, he's considered at least the third best prospect in the Indians system behind two A level, can't miss, going to be ML stars. And just like with Francisco Lindor, big dollars were used to make sure Dorsyss' talent is developed with Chief Wahoo on his sleeve.. At the end of day, this kid brings the sizzle to the steak... he's the goods..

& yes.. it's a good idea to keep watching him in the minors.. but don't count on him being there too long.. and certainly not projecting him to be hitting .250 at AAA. he'll be playing at the corner of Carnegie and Ontario..

Wow, you really don't understand anything I said.

Wow you don't even listen to yourself..

That doesn't even make sense, but I'll move on.

You don’t seem to grasp the concept that prospects often fail. I’ll try to make it easy for you; Trevor Bauer and Francisco Lindor are BA’s 14th and 28th top prospects for 2013, respectively. From 2000 to 2005, the following players were BA’s 14th rated prospects – Kip Wells (2000), Drew Henson (2001), Ryan Anderson (2002), Justin Morneau (2003), Zach Greinke (2004), Jeff Francoeur (2005). The following players were BA’s 28th rated prospects – Ramon Ortiz (2000), Matt Belisle (2001), Jake Peavy (2002), Joe Borchard (2003), Jeremy Hermida (2004), J.J. Hardy (2005).

You indirectly label Bauer and Lindor as “can’t miss, going to be ML stars”. Well, Kip Wells, Drew Henson, Ryan Anderson, Jeff Francoeur, Ramon Ortiz, Matt Belisle, Joe Borchard and Jeremy Hermida were all similarly ranked and “missed” and were not “ML stars”. Only Morneau, Greinke and Peavy turned out to be ML stars, and JJ Hardy also turned out to be a good MLB player.

Now, it seems to me that you don’t seem to care about history as a precedent and prefer to believe what pleases your interests as an Indians fan, but historical evidence suggests that the Indians would be very fortunate if Francisco Lindor and Trevor Bauer BOTH turned into stars at the MLB level. I really hope it happens, but things often get in the way.

We’re all Indians fans here. The Cleveland Indians prospects that made Baseball America’s top 100 list from 2000 to 2005 include; Adam Miller, Michael Aubrey, Franklin Gutierrez, Brad Snyder, Jeremy Sowers, Grady Sizemore, Jeremy Guthrie, Fausto Carmona, Jake Dittler, Brandon Phillips, Victor Martinez, Cliff Lee, Travis Hafner, Alex Escobar, Corey Smith, J.D. Martin, C.C. Sabathia, Danys Baez, Tim Drew, and Russ Branyan.

There are some very good players on that list (some are excellent players), but more than half went bust (Miller, Aubrey, Snyder, Sowers, Dittler, Escobar, Smith, Martin, Drew, Baez, Branyan). So please excuse me if I say Indians fans are getting a little ahead of themselves talking up a teenager with two months of short-season ball experience that didn’t even make the top 100 list in Dorssys Paulino. Have fun arguing against historical precedent.

[GeronimoSon]

When minds come to different conclusions, then objective reviews might be in order:

-Baseball Prospect Nation disagrees with you: http://baseballprospectnation.com/2012/ ... aulino-ss/

-Coast2CoastProspects disagrees with you: Dorssys Paulino, SS, C+
Paulino is another shortstop prospect with an extremely high ceiling. Signed for a little over $1 million out of the Dominican Republic, he has all the tools at the plate. He will hit for a good average and gap power at least with some speed. He may have to move from short as he develops as he is not great defensively at present.

ScoutingBook disagrees with you: http://www.scoutingbook.com/players/p3225

Prospect Digest disagrees with you: Projection: Paulino’s offensive ceiling is higher than Lindor’s — particularly his power — and could ultimately become the team’s top prospect. But he’s going to have to show a similar approach and better defense as he moves up the minor league ladder. He could develop into a middle-of-the-order-type hitter, capable of possessing a plus-hit tool. Ceiling: 4-win player

There are many others.. All of them believe that this kid is the goods with the bat in his hand. No one is saying that his defense is the make or break or that he doesn't need work.. Dorsyss has the potential to be a better hitter for both power and average than Francisco Lindor & that's saying a LOT.. I would LOVE to have both of them w/ Chief Wahoo on their sleeves...

[OhioBaseball]

When minds come to different conclusions, then objective reviews might be in order:

-Baseball Prospect Nation disagrees with you: http://baseballprospectnation.com/2012/ ... aulino-ss/

-Coast2CoastProspects disagrees with you: Dorssys Paulino, SS, C+
Paulino is another shortstop prospect with an extremely high ceiling. Signed for a little over $1 million out of the Dominican Republic, he has all the tools at the plate. He will hit for a good average and gap power at least with some speed. He may have to move from short as he develops as he is not great defensively at present.

ScoutingBook disagrees with you: http://www.scoutingbook.com/players/p3225

Prospect Digest disagrees with you: Projection: Paulino’s offensive ceiling is higher than Lindor’s — particularly his power — and could ultimately become the team’s top prospect. But he’s going to have to show a similar approach and better defense as he moves up the minor league ladder. He could develop into a middle-of-the-order-type hitter, capable of possessing a plus-hit tool. Ceiling: 4-win player

There are many others.. All of them believe that this kid is the goods with the bat in his hand. No one is saying that his defense is the make or break or that he doesn't need work.. Dorsyss has the potential to be a better hitter for both power and average than Francisco Lindor & that's saying a LOT.. I would LOVE to have both of them w/ Chief Wahoo on their sleeves...

Reading comprehension fail (which is not surprising, as I accurately foresaw this...see end of message). Go back and ACTUALLY READ WHAT I SAID about Paulino. I will summarize;

"Very quick bat and a nice swing"
"Good enough athlete to play in MLB middle infield"
"Good arm speed, throws carry pretty well"
"Runs well, but not plus speed"
"His swing is a doubles kind of swing, not a powerful swing that projects for significant power down the road"
"There's really nothing flashy about Paulino; he's adequate in pretty much all respect but tool-wise nothing stands out"
"At the MLB level, he can run, throw and potentially field well enough to be adequate, but his only plus tool is is bat"
"This guy is a GOOD prospect and I think his good performance at such a young age is very encouraging, but he's got some limitations"
"Not a lot of room for improvement outside of improvement through repetitions"

So you tell me where the disagreements are.

It's very consistent with Baseball Prospect Nation. Adequate tools across the board, only plus potential MLB tool is his bat. CHECK.

Coast2Coast Prospects: There's really not much analysis here, but it's consistent with what I said. "Hit for Good average, gap power with at least some speed...not great defensively at present".

There's virtually no insight/analysis in the ScoutingBook report.

ProspectDigest didn't really provide much analysis, either, but it does seem to view Lindor's power potential relative to Paulino's differently than me, which I understand, but I think Lindor will hit for more extra basis in the future than he did in 2012.

GSon, had you actually read what I said and compared what was written you wouldn't have drawn the inaccurate conclusions that you did. I've actually spoken highly of him, but am using historical context to understand that many prospects fail and Dorssys Paulino is not bulletproof.

I'll pat myself on the back for seeing this coming when I posted yesterday at 4:39pm, "Let's please not turn this into a "OB, why do you think Paulino sucks" discussion, where I find myself responding to posts that have nothing to do with my original point". I obviously knew who I was dealing with.

[GeronimoSon]

.. as I accurately foresaw this....

<=== you did nothing of the kind. What you did was misread even your own opinion and came to the conclusion that a player with an advanced hit tool (in comparison to Lindor's) would hit .250 at AAA.. while Lindor was going to hit .300 w/ 15+ homers in the MLB.. You don't make any sense..

[martyinnewyork]

Geez … I think its pretty obvious that there are no guarantees with Lindor or Paulino or Bauer. We aren't even sure how Kipnis will turn out. Or if Santana will ever truly break out. Paulino and Lindor both have a good chance to be special. But nothing is set in stone yet.
Occasionally, its ok to say that the other guy is right...

[daingean]

Geez … I think its pretty obvious that there are no guarantees with Lindor or Paulino or Bauer. We aren't even sure how Kipnis will turn out. Or if Santana will ever truly break out. Paulino and Lindor both have a good chance to be special. But nothing is set in stone yet.
Occasionally, its ok to say that the other guy is right...

plus it will be a few years before either is proven correct/wrong.....ranking prospects is all about each person's personal preference. In my opinion the first 3 could be in any order and there is a decent gap between them and number 4. I put Bauer #1 because he's far more advanced, Lindor #2 because defense ranks higher than O (but O is needed) when ranking middle infield prospects and Lindor is more advanced, Paulino #3 because I just don't know where he'll play defensively. All 3 are almost untouchable for opposing GM's in my opinion.

[MadThinker88]

As an fyi - I've continued searching the net for more sites and prospect ranking lists. I've located a handful more (from what was previously shared) and will likely post those lists next weekend.

[MadThinker88]

Since I'm on today, I will post a few items I have come across. There are still more then what gets posted here.

RotoWorld Fantasy Baseball Preview Magazine 2013

Rank Name Position
1 Francisco Lindor SS
2 Trevor Bauer RHP
3 Dorssys Paulino SS
4 Ronnie Rodriguez SS
5 Mitch Brown RHP
6 Tyler Naquin OF
7 Danny Salazar RHP
8 Luigi Rodriguez OF
9 Cody Allen RHP
10 Jose Ramirez 2B


SportingNews Baseball Preview Magazine 2013
Rank Name Position
1 Trevor Bauer RHP
2 Francisco Lindor SS
3 Dorssys Paulino SS
4 Tyler Naquin OF
5 Ronnie Rodriguez SS
6 Mitch Brown RHP
7 Cody Allen RHP
8 Jesus Aguilar 1B
9 Tony Wolters 2B/SS
10 Danny Salazar RHP

Scouting Book's Top Indians Prospects Right Now
http://www.scoutingbook.com/blog/cle-cl ... pects-2013?
by PeeWee on 27 Feb 2013 04:04:44 PST

With the possible exception of the shocking Blue Jays, no team did more this offseason to overhaul their MLB roster than the Cleveland Indians. The Indians added pitching, hitting and bench depth up and down the roster, enough that some now expect them to contend in the always-tight AL Central. ......

Today's SB Combine Ranking shown in parentheses.
1. Trevor Bauer RHP (#11 overall)
2. Francisco Lindor SS (#23 overall)
3. Dorssys Paulino SS (#103 overall)
4. Tyler Naquin OF (#192 overall)
5. Mitch Brown RHP (#250 overall)
6. Tony Wolters SS (#297 overall)
7. Chris McGuiness 1B (#298 overall)
8. Chen Chang Lee RHP (#377 overall)
9. Dillon Howard RHP (#385 overall)
10. Scott Barnes LHP (#397 overall)

[MadThinker88]

and more still.....

FanGraphs Baseball
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.ph ... s-2012-13/
Cleveland Indians Top 15 Prospects (2012-13)
by Marc Hulet - March 1, 2013

The Indians system doesn’t have a ton of depth but both Francisco Lindor and Trevor Bauer offer high ceilings. The club also has some really intriguing sleepers such as Danny Salazar and Anthony Santander. The organization has done an outstanding job of finding value in the Latin market.

Rank Name Position
1 Francisco Lindor SS
2 Trevor Bauer RHP
3 Dorssys Paulino SS
4 Tyler Naquin OF
5 Luigi Rodriguez OF
6 Mitch Brown RHP
7 Danny Salazar RHP
8 Ronnie Rodriguez SS
9 Tony Wolters 2B/SS
10 Cody Allen RHP
11 Jesus Aguilar 1B
12 Jose Ramirez 2B
13 Kieran Lovegrove RHP
14 Scott Barnes LHP
15 Anthony Santander OF


MLB DIRT
http://mlbdirt.com/2013/02/11/2013-clev ... prospects/
2013 Cleveland Indians Top 16 Prospects
Posted on February 11, 2013 by mlbdirtstaff

The Cleveland Indians have vastly improved their system via trade, recent drafts, and international signings. They have legitimate up-the-middle prospects and some strong arms, albeit most of these higher-potential prospects are a few years away.
Below are our top 16 prospects with 2013 opening day age, position, and comments on each player. Below the top 16 is a small list of additional notable names. Enjoy.

Rank Name Position
1 Francisco Lindor SS
2 Trevor Bauer RHP
3 Dorssys Paulino SS
4 Tyler Naquin OF
5 Mitch Brown RHP
6 Ronnie Rodriguez SS
7 Danny Salazar RHP
8 Cody Allen RHP
9 Tony Wolters 2B/SS
10 Luigi Rodriguez OF
11 Jose Ramirez 2B
12 Jesus Aguilar 1B
13 Elvis Araujo LHP
14 Kieran Lovegrove RHP
14 Dillon Howard RHP
16 Anthony Santander OF
HM1 Chen Lee RHP
HM2 Joseph Wendle 2B
HM3 Dylan Baker RHP

[homerawayfromhome]

MadThinker88,

Thanks for these, I always appreciate when people make gathering info. Etc. comparing easy.

Personally, I think it's good to see a lot of the same names at or near similar spots. This group could take a huge leap in the next yr or two with some maturation, health and another influx of talent this summer via IFA signings and / or the draft.

[MadThinker88]

No problem Homer. All told I should end up with a total of 30 sites/ magazines/ books as part of this years evaluation process. So far it's pretty clear that the top 3 are Lindor/ Bauer and Paulino. What is getting interesting is the determination of the next 7.

[MadThinker88]

I am almost done at this point with my prospect ranking project. I still have a few more sources to post on this thread and there is one last prospect countdown that I am recording into the spreadsheet.

The overall result is slightly skewed as a few places posted before Bauer was acquired and those 5 sites did not update the rankings with his acquisition. In quick summary: Lindor ends up as the #1 overall but the finishing of Paulino (#2) and Bauer (#3) is directly affected by the 5 sources that didn't note Bauer at all.

As for the interesting part (who rounds out the remaining top spots): Mitch Brown, Ronny Rodriguez, Tyler Naquin and Danny Salazar fill out a 2nd tier (packed within 2 points of each other) and then Tony Wolters, Cody Allen, Luigi Rodriguez, Jose Ramirez and Jesus Aguilar create a 3rd tier (packed within 1.25 points of each other).

Once final items are posted, I will posted some of the results so people can evaluate for themselves.