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Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby Tondo » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:28 am

Had their 1st game yesterday and lost 11-6...oh well, at least a Dillon Howard sighting (bad 1st start though)

Dorssys Paulino and Anthony Santander with a good 1st game...2 17yo high profile international signings

Here's the box: http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.js ... k_clerok_1

Here's the complete roster: http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.js ... s&cid=2770

Should be a strong rotation with Howard, M.Brown, Baker and Lovegrove but also some high profile bats with Schubert, Haase, Paulino, Santander and recent draft specs Booth and Brian Ruiz
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby OhioBaseball » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:54 am

Tondo wrote:Had their 1st game yesterday and lost 11-6...oh well, at least a Dillon Howard sighting (bad 1st start though)

Dorssys Paulino and Anthony Santander with a good 1st game...2 17yo high profile international signings

Here's the box: http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.js ... k_clerok_1

Here's the complete roster: http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.js ... s&cid=2770

Should be a strong rotation with Howard, M.Brown, Baker and Lovegrove but also some high profile bats with Schubert, Haase, Paulino, Santander and recent draft specs Booth and Brian Ruiz


You're forgetting Luis Lugo, who is probably a better prospect than Lovegrove. Lugo is legit.

It's only 1 start, but if you told me that Howard would be in rookie league ball this year (given how advanced he was last year at this time), I would have told you that he'd be dominating. He needs to do a lot better than this.
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby JP_Frost » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:11 pm

Jesus, it was his damn pro ball debut!
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby OhioBaseball » Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:02 pm

JP_Frost wrote:Jesus, it was his damn pro ball debut!


Easy, guy! That's why I said it's only one start.

I commented b/c I'm real surprised that he's just in rookie ball. He got the money he did last year (I believe it was warranted) b/c he was an advanced, physically mature HS pitching prospect with good upside. I don't think he needed much work on his delivery at all (Rocky would probably agree with me), so I'm a little puzzled why he's so low on the minor league ladder right now.

On a more positive note, my boy Luis Lugo with a fine debut in Arizona tonight. You all need to take this guy seriously. He's good. Very nice find by the Indians.
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby criznit2009 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:45 am

Great to see Matt Packer back in action. Gotta believe he heads up to Akron or possibly Cloumbus soon
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby Rocky55 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:33 am

The AZL Rangers roster includes Joey Gallo, Nick Williams, & Lewis Brinson.

How in Hell did they pull that off???
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:51 pm

Baker tonight....Brown tomorrow....Lovegrove on Saturday. Good times following the AZL the next few nights!
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby OhioBaseball » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:57 pm

Has anyone else noticed how ridiculous the offensive numbers are in this league? Everyone with a pulse seems to be putting up big numbers. It's 100 degrees about every night when the games start. I've seen U of Arizona games before and that infield gets HARD real fast in these conditions -- it can be real difficult fielding and I doubt the rookie league field keepers are diligently manicuring the infields. Not to mention the ball probably carries quite well.

These are extreme numbers we're seeing. Take a look at Joey Gallo -- he's practically been Babe Ruth, Jr.

I think we've gotta put these numbers into perspective; pitchers are having a difficult time and it's been easy for hitters.
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:31 pm

It's always been that way. Once they get to A ball, we get a real taste of their talent.
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby OhioBaseball » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:07 am

JP_Frost wrote:It's always been that way. Once they get to A ball, we get a real taste of their talent.


I don't believe that's true. I just ran the numbers going back to 2005 (based on Team OPS) -- this year the average Team OPS is .773 compared to the 8 year history of .735. The 2012 average OPS is two standard deviations above the mean, so I think the bats this year are a little hot. Now, we're only looking at 4 weeks of play so it's a small sample so far in 2012, but the offensive numbers are quite quite high relative to the norm so far this year in Arizona. For note, interestingly, 2011 was .755 so the trend is offensively friendly in this league.

I do agree that we don't get a real taste of talent/skill until they go to A-ball, though.
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby daingean » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:38 am

OhioBaseball wrote:
JP_Frost wrote:It's always been that way. Once they get to A ball, we get a real taste of their talent.


I don't believe that's true. I just ran the numbers going back to 2005 (based on Team OPS) -- this year the average Team OPS is .773 compared to the 8 year history of .735. The 2012 average OPS is two standard deviations above the mean, so I think the bats this year are a little hot. Now, we're only looking at 4 weeks of play so it's a small sample so far in 2012, but the offensive numbers are quite quite high relative to the norm so far this year in Arizona. For note, interestingly, 2011 was .755 so the trend is offensively friendly in this league.

I do agree that we don't get a real taste of talent/skill until they go to A-ball, though.


Going back to 2005 may be a bit misleading as several of those years the team was in Florida. There is a distinct difference between hitting in Florida compared to Arizona.
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby OhioBaseball » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:42 am

daingean wrote:
OhioBaseball wrote:
JP_Frost wrote:It's always been that way. Once they get to A ball, we get a real taste of their talent.


I don't believe that's true. I just ran the numbers going back to 2005 (based on Team OPS) -- this year the average Team OPS is .773 compared to the 8 year history of .735. The 2012 average OPS is two standard deviations above the mean, so I think the bats this year are a little hot. Now, we're only looking at 4 weeks of play so it's a small sample so far in 2012, but the offensive numbers are quite quite high relative to the norm so far this year in Arizona. For note, interestingly, 2011 was .755 so the trend is offensively friendly in this league.

I do agree that we don't get a real taste of talent/skill until they go to A-ball, though.


Going back to 2005 may be a bit misleading as several of those years the team was in Florida. There is a distinct difference between hitting in Florida compared to Arizona.


The stats I was quoting were for the Arizona Summer League as a whole from 2005 to 2012 (those are league-wide OPS figures); not just the Indians rookie league team. The amount of teams in the league will fluctuate over time, but in general I think the stats are good.

JP is right that the offensive stats in the Arizona Summer League tend to be high -- when compared to other rookie league teams (GCL), the Arizona League is certainly hitter-friendly. However, this year it is particularly hitter-friendly even when considering the offensive nature of the league.

The numbers are crazy. You'd think Jorge Martinez is tearing up the league, but he is only 9th in the league in OPS.

Two of my favorite high school prospects from this year are murdering pitching; Joey Gallo with a 1.427 OPS and Addison Russell with a 1.226 OPS. Small sample sizes, but Dorsyss Paulino is 20th in the league right now in OPS despite being at the .949 mark. Crazy numbers in this league this summer.

Perhaps something to keep in mind when looking at the pitching stats of Howard and Lugo.
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby daingean » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:25 am

OhioBaseball wrote:The stats I was quoting were for the Arizona Summer League as a whole from 2005 to 2012 (those are league-wide OPS figures); not just the Indians rookie league team. The amount of teams in the league will fluctuate over time, but in general I think the stats are good.

JP is right that the offensive stats in the Arizona Summer League tend to be high -- when compared to other rookie league teams (GCL), the Arizona League is certainly hitter-friendly. However, this year it is particularly hitter-friendly even when considering the offensive nature of the league.

The numbers are crazy. You'd think Jorge Martinez is tearing up the league, but he is only 9th in the league in OPS.

Two of my favorite high school prospects from this year are murdering pitching; Joey Gallo with a 1.427 OPS and Addison Russell with a 1.226 OPS. Small sample sizes, but Dorsyss Paulino is 20th in the league right now in OPS despite being at the .949 mark. Crazy numbers in this league this summer.

Perhaps something to keep in mind when looking at the pitching stats of Howard and Lugo.


Okay. I misunderstood. I thought it was just the Indians Rookie ball teams.

As for the real proving ground, most baseball people will say that AA is where the wheat gets separated from the chaff. Especially in the Eastern League but I'd also add the Carolina league as that is a pitchers' league too.
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby Upper Box Woodchuck » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:52 am

OhioBaseball wrote:Has anyone else noticed how ridiculous the offensive numbers are in this league? Everyone with a pulse seems to be putting up big numbers. It's 100 degrees about every night when the games start. I've seen U of Arizona games before and that infield gets HARD real fast in these conditions -- it can be real difficult fielding and I doubt the rookie league field keepers are diligently manicuring the infields. Not to mention the ball probably carries quite well.

These are extreme numbers we're seeing. Take a look at Joey Gallo -- he's practically been Babe Ruth, Jr.

I think we've gotta put these numbers into perspective; pitchers are having a difficult time and it's been easy for hitters.


These are major league spring training complexes we're talking about, so the grounds crew work quality should be on par with (if not better than) the minor leagues proper.

The rest of your point stands, though.
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:06 pm

Inflated AZL stats notwithstanding, McClure had a nice 2-3 debut with a BB & a K. Josh McAdams outdid him with a 2-2, including a double & 3 walks, plus threw out Stryker Trahan at 3rd. Looks like the arm is as advertised. Also, Nelson Rodriguez went deep for his 1st pro HR & Dorssys Paulino hit his 3rd. Good night for the Baby Tribe.
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:11 am

Nice game #2 for McClure too.

3-for-7 with his first pro HR.
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby OhioBaseball » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:05 am

The AZL Indians are playing the Rangers right now. The Rangers' line-up is just ridiculous 1-5.

Lewis Brinson
Nick Williams
Nomar Mazara
Joey Gallo
Ronald Guzman

Major, major tools with all those guys. Also, Joey Gallo...very good 3b prospect but would be a very legitimate RHP prospect, too.
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby JP_Frost » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:48 am

Gallo probably won't stick at 3rd though, but the Rangers don't waste his arm at 1st. I believe he's been clocked in the mid to high 90's. RF anyone?
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby OhioBaseball » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:05 pm

JP_Frost wrote:Gallo probably won't stick at 3rd though, but the Rangers don't waste his arm at 1st. I believe he's been clocked in the mid to high 90's. RF anyone?


It will be interesting to see what position he plays. AfI think he's certainly got the athleticism and arm strength to handle 3b. I think there is a fair chance he ends up at 1b, probably better than 50% but his bat will play at the position. Gallo is not a tweener type.

I don't know what he's been clocked at, but he's got legit arm strength, very good arm speed, obviously good leverage and athleticism. The problem with Gallo as a position prospect is a long swing and the K's that come with it. Does it get to the point where he becomes an Adam Dunn-type hitter, batting .215 with 35+ HR's? I don't know but there's a fair chance it will. If the K's get to be a real issue, it will be interesting to see if he's used as a RHP at some point. I bet there are some scouts that liked him more as a pitcher -- while they are probably a minority, it just shows that he's quite talented as a position player and pitcher.
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby Rocky55 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:25 am

I know he's a baby & only 25 games into his season but is it time to think about promoting Paulino? We ought to chip in & send the scout who signed this guy to an adult entertainment club for a free lap dance. I mean Martinez is having a good year too but Paulino is 17 for Chrissakes. What a polished offensive game for such a young kid. I don't know about his defense so I don't want to comp him to Lindor but Paulino could be just as much of a prodigy.
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby criznit2009 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:25 am

Rocky55 wrote:I know he's a baby & only 25 games into his season but is it time to think about promoting Paulino? We ought to chip in & send the scout who signed this guy to an adult entertainment club for a free lap dance. I mean Martinez is having a good year too but Paulino is 17 for Chrissakes. What a polished offensive game for such a young kid. I don't know about his defense so I don't want to comp him to Lindor but Paulino could be just as much of a prodigy.


I love Paulino, his approach at the plate is fantastic and being so young, my god the sky is the limit.. Has to be in the top 5 ( I think 2 personally) of all tribe prospects, and given the lack of breakout performances by others, even struggles of others (Sterling pitched the other night in the AZL) should be in the top 3 at years end. Might see him some later in MV, but really looking forward to what he does in LC next season. Lindor definitely has some competition next year, offensively speaking. If Paulino can improve his defense, he has a ways to go in this regard, he immediately threatens Lindor for #1 prospect status.
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby A.Zajac » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:37 am

Any chance we see Paulino in MV before the end of the season?
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Re: Official 2012 AZL Indians thread

Postby Rocky55 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:15 am

Nice game for the Baby Indians yesterday.

Prodigy Paulino continues to roll: 4AB/3H/1-3B up to .354/.403/.602/1.005.

Eric Haase: 5AB/3H/2-2B batting .325/.352/.566/.918. Good to see Haase healthy & producing.

D'vone McClure: 4AB/3H/2-2B/4 RBI batting .254/.360/.365/.725. He has these great games every so often that give you something to dream on.

Now on to the big news:

Mitch Brown: 5IP, 0-R, 0-H, 2-BB, 5K. Two walks away from 5 perfect Innings. In the AZL. Nice.

Also, a Caleb Hamrick sighting: 2-IP, 3H, 1-ER.

I'd like to put these guys in a time machine & age them a couple of years. We need them.
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