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2012 Draft Prospects

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:36 pm

criznit2009 wrote:If we go with Shaffer - he has to move to 1B right????


I think LF or RF.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:36 pm

criznit2009 wrote:If we go with Shaffer - he has to move to 1B right????

Think Shaffer can handle RF.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:38 pm

Kenny Williams just aged a decade in 5 seconds.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:39 pm

Dark horse for 15th pick: DJ Davis.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby criznit2009 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:42 pm

Alot of ways to go - do the take a chance on Giolito?
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:42 pm

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Indians go way off the board here.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby criznit2009 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:43 pm

Shaffer,Wacha, Giolito and...... Smoral.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:43 pm

criznit2009 wrote:Alot of ways to go - do the take a chance on Giolito?


Wouldn't hate it (would actually like it a lot), but really can't see it. Would be a bit like Appel likely, would take most of your draft money even if you can sign him.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:44 pm

PG comps Travieso with Beckett. He's probably not an asshole though.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby TheWord » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:46 pm

Travieso is a reach there.

Delivery is scary, arm problems are scary.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby criznit2009 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:47 pm

WHOA NAQUIN - ---- nobody picked that!!!!!
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:48 pm

All right, a power RH bat...no wait.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby criznit2009 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:48 pm

Left Handed even........ UGH!!!!!!! They LOVE left handers...
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:49 pm

This seems like a below-slot pick. Not a fan.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:53 pm

JP_Frost wrote:This seems like a below-slot pick. Not a fan.


Me neither. If he sticks in CF and plays well there then it's ok I guess but was hoping for more here. Hopefully he's not the next Crowe.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby criznit2009 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:30 pm

I hate this pick. Hope he proves me wrong, but I predict later round picks will have more ML success then he does.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:34 pm

Y'all realize Naquin has prolly the best OF arm in college? I tried to post this 3 times but something's wrong with the board. Maybe it works this time.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:38 pm

Hah! the Sux pick Marrero.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:55 pm

I like Coulter. Really nice bat & strong arm. Saw him put multiple throws right on the bag.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:03 pm

I'd rather have Naquin than Marrero or Ramsey & maybe sign him under slot. Hope they have this figured out & can sign some upside HSers with the savings.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby OhioBaseball » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:16 pm

Naquin shouldn't have gone where he did. If the Indians are going to use him as an OF'er then I think it's a flat out bad pick. He's a total 'tweener in the OF. He's got a really smallish body frame; there's not big enough bones there to put on some meat. Naquin could very well slap his way to a .300 average in the major leagues -- the guy is a good hitter, but this is the kind of stuff you say about 2nd and 3rd rounders.

I may be over-thinking this, but are the Indians planning to convert Naquin to the infield? This is the same organization that moved a tweener in the OF in Jason Kipnis to 2B and it's worked out extremely well. One guy that Naquin reminds me of (although Naquin has a more narrow body frame and won't have the power potential) is Dustin Ackley. Ackley played 1B and CF at North Carolina and had the athleticism to play 2b, he moved there and he's worked out OK so far. Naquin is a similar tweener player with athleticism with a similar kind of bat to Ackley. Second base seems like a waste of his arm; maybe 3b?

One big difference betwene Naquin and Kipnis is that Kinpis actually played the infield in the Cape League (not a ton of games, though), whereas I don't believe Naquin has the experience. Naquin is a pretty good defensive OF'er so moving him off the position may seem dumb, but I just don't see how you can legitimately take a guy with Naquin's skill set (really doesn't profile as a good starting OF in MLB) in the middle of the first round unless you have plans on moving him to a position where his bat projects better.

Like I said, maybe I'm overthinking this. It could have just been a signability pick, or maybe the Indians just don't know what the hell they are doing (I don't believe that's the case). Maybe signability in the first round and someone like McCullers, Gallo or Smoral fall to the second round and the Indians nab one of them.

It really sucks when Lucas Giolito is on the board when you select and you go with a guy that projects as a 4th outfielder on a good team. Yeah, the price tag between Giolito and Naquin is very different, but five years from now even $2-$3 million difference in their price tags may look like chump change.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:24 pm

I thought about a move as well, but I think it's more likely they think he can either play CF or his bat develops enough to have him in RF. Signability is probably the biggest factor here and Grant probably thought that this kid was a safe bet to play in the majors for a reasonable price tag.

Let's see what happens tomorrow before we make judgements. Though, I'll agree that the pick came out of the blue and he certainly wasn't my choice.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:25 pm

OB, I just keep repeating: "Brad Grant is the God of the Draft, Brad Grant is the God of the Draft...".
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:29 pm

Another thing, how'd you like to be a Sux fan & get Marrero & Johnson out of 2 1st round picks?
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:37 pm

Tyler Naquin.. when Lucas Giolito was sitting there ready to be anointed with a jersey bearing Chief Wahoo on the sleeve. Impact/Front of the rotation pitching prospect or solid 'well thought of' left handed outfielder.. Seems like "safe" won out over throwing caution to the wind.. one step forward.. two steps back... The best player available at the time the Indians picked..wasn't.. smh..
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:40 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:Naquin shouldn't have gone where he did. If the Indians are going to use him as an OF'er then I think it's a flat out bad pick. He's a total 'tweener in the OF. He's got a really smallish body frame; there's not big enough bones there to put on some meat. Naquin could very well slap his way to a .300 average in the major leagues -- the guy is a good hitter, but this is the kind of stuff you say about 2nd and 3rd rounders.

I may be over-thinking this, but are the Indians planning to convert Naquin to the infield? This is the same organization that moved a tweener in the OF in Jason Kipnis to 2B and it's worked out extremely well. One guy that Naquin reminds me of (although Naquin has a more narrow body frame and won't have the power potential) is Dustin Ackley. Ackley played 1B and CF at North Carolina and had the athleticism to play 2b, he moved there and he's worked out OK so far. Naquin is a similar tweener player with athleticism with a similar kind of bat to Ackley. Second base seems like a waste of his arm; maybe 3b?

One big difference betwene Naquin and Kipnis is that Kinpis actually played the infield in the Cape League (not a ton of games, though), whereas I don't believe Naquin has the experience. Naquin is a pretty good defensive OF'er so moving him off the position may seem dumb, but I just don't see how you can legitimately take a guy with Naquin's skill set (really doesn't profile as a good starting OF in MLB) in the middle of the first round unless you have plans on moving him to a position where his bat projects better.

Like I said, maybe I'm overthinking this. It could have just been a signability pick, or maybe the Indians just don't know what the hell they are doing (I don't believe that's the case). Maybe signability in the first round and someone like McCullers, Gallo or Smoral fall to the second round and the Indians nab one of them.

It really sucks when Lucas Giolito is on the board when you select and you go with a guy that projects as a 4th outfielder on a good team. Yeah, the price tag between Giolito and Naquin is very different, but five years from now even $2-$3 million difference in their price tags may look like chump change.


His bat projects better in CF than 3B though (and heck, no worse than 2B with the evolution of the positions). Guess it depends on if he can stick in center. I think he could handle it but we'll see. We are playing Brantley there now. A move to 2B could make sense, but I agree with you on his arm being a waste there.

Giolito...think that's a causality of not really knowing how the new draft is gonna work. Only about $4.5M to play with in 10 rounds, Giolito could have taken most of that leaving you with an injured high schooler and nothing else. Nats have so many young guys plus the ability to go out and sign a big free agent if needed that I think it's an easier risk to take for them. Still gonna be a tough sign.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby OhioBaseball » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:46 pm

Rocky55 wrote:Another thing, how'd you like to be a Sux fan & get Marrero & Johnson out of 2 1st round picks?


Haha! I may not like the Naquin pick all that much, but LOL on the Marrero and Johnson picks! :)

I don't hate Naquin, but really would have preferred other players. If it allows them to get one of the HS guys like Gallo, McCullers or Smoral (hometown guy that may sign?) I'd be OK with it. I have some issues with Smoral but I'd be fine with him overslot in the 2nd. We'll see, though. The Indians just may have really liked Naquin.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:50 pm

Stros got Correa & McCullers. Damn!
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:53 pm

Guy on PG comps Naquin's bat with Jon Jay. Not really tons of value at 15.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:00 pm

Damn. Wanted Matt Olson. He went earlier than projected. Really really sweet swing. Athletic 1B. Damn again. Barnum goes next.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:01 pm

Well, there goes Winker. Shit.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:05 pm

And Smoral
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:06 pm

There are better guys going in the comp round than lots of the 1st rounders. I hate the comp round because we NEVER get comp picks.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby TheWord » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:11 pm

Rocky55 wrote:There are better guys going in the comp round than lots of the 1st rounders. I hate the comp round because we NEVER get comp picks.



Based on what?
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby OhioBaseball » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:14 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
OhioBaseball wrote:Naquin shouldn't have gone where he did. If the Indians are going to use him as an OF'er then I think it's a flat out bad pick. He's a total 'tweener in the OF. He's got a really smallish body frame; there's not big enough bones there to put on some meat. Naquin could very well slap his way to a .300 average in the major leagues -- the guy is a good hitter, but this is the kind of stuff you say about 2nd and 3rd rounders.

I may be over-thinking this, but are the Indians planning to convert Naquin to the infield? This is the same organization that moved a tweener in the OF in Jason Kipnis to 2B and it's worked out extremely well. One guy that Naquin reminds me of (although Naquin has a more narrow body frame and won't have the power potential) is Dustin Ackley. Ackley played 1B and CF at North Carolina and had the athleticism to play 2b, he moved there and he's worked out OK so far. Naquin is a similar tweener player with athleticism with a similar kind of bat to Ackley. Second base seems like a waste of his arm; maybe 3b?

One big difference betwene Naquin and Kipnis is that Kinpis actually played the infield in the Cape League (not a ton of games, though), whereas I don't believe Naquin has the experience. Naquin is a pretty good defensive OF'er so moving him off the position may seem dumb, but I just don't see how you can legitimately take a guy with Naquin's skill set (really doesn't profile as a good starting OF in MLB) in the middle of the first round unless you have plans on moving him to a position where his bat projects better.

Like I said, maybe I'm overthinking this. It could have just been a signability pick, or maybe the Indians just don't know what the hell they are doing (I don't believe that's the case). Maybe signability in the first round and someone like McCullers, Gallo or Smoral fall to the second round and the Indians nab one of them.

It really sucks when Lucas Giolito is on the board when you select and you go with a guy that projects as a 4th outfielder on a good team. Yeah, the price tag between Giolito and Naquin is very different, but five years from now even $2-$3 million difference in their price tags may look like chump change.


His bat projects better in CF than 3B though (and heck, no worse than 2B with the evolution of the positions). Guess it depends on if he can stick in center. I think he could handle it but we'll see. We are playing Brantley there now. A move to 2B could make sense, but I agree with you on his arm being a waste there.

Giolito...think that's a causality of not really knowing how the new draft is gonna work. Only about $4.5M to play with in 10 rounds, Giolito could have taken most of that leaving you with an injured high schooler and nothing else. Nats have so many young guys plus the ability to go out and sign a big free agent if needed that I think it's an easier risk to take for them. Still gonna be a tough sign.


CF is a stretch. #1 - If you are moved off the position in college (Naquin played RF at Texas A&M), you've got an uphill battle to play the position at the major league level.

#2 - If you watch his tapes on YouTube, he lacks a good first step and even once he gets running underway it's OK speed, but underwhelming. He can overcome those athletic limitations if he's got good instincts, which I don't know about b/c I haven't regularly watched him.

I hope he works out. I mean, maybe he's Ichiro Suzuki with less speed? Could be, but still a bit of a stretch. He probably stands a better chance at CF than 3b or 2b (he's never even played the infield as far as I know), but it just seems like not such a great pick to me. There were lots of good players available at 15; even without Giolito, there were a few good college arms there in Stratton, Wacha and Stroman. To take a guy that is a tweener in the middle of the first round, it's just a bit of a reach. I'm glad they didn't take Heaney, but I was hoping for more upside than Naquin.

I'm not hating on this pick to be a jerk or anything. I started this thread in June/July of 2011 and wrote this on Naquin in the first post of the thread (and my opinion hasn't really changed on him)...

"Tyler Naquin – RF Texas A&M – It’s pretty easy to overlook him b/c while he’s tall, he does not have a strong body build. He’s got a narrow body and will likely always have below average power for a corner outfielder; he can gain strength but it won’t be much. He’s not a no-tools college outfield prospect, though. His arm strength is surprisingly good so he could hang in RF. His swing is quick and translates well to wood. I could not take this guy in the top 20 overall, but college position prospects are weak again this year and a team could reach for this guy if they see some Dustin Ackley in him, which isn’t a big stretch b/c they have some similarities.

Potential – Dustin Ackley in a corner OF spot.
Realistic Outcome – A good 4th outfielder
."

To be fair, I also did not have great things to say about Jason Kipnis when the Indians drafted him. I thought he was a 4th outfielder. My opinion changed on Kipnis once he started to gain traction as a legit 2b, and frankly, even if he were still a corner outfielder his bat would easily play there. The Indians would have no problem at all slotting him in LF everyday right now! Kipnis worked out exceptionally well and the Indians deserve credit and hopefully they are more right than I am on Naquin.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:16 pm

TheWord wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:There are better guys going in the comp round than lots of the 1st rounders. I hate the comp round because we NEVER get comp picks.



Based on what?

Nothing but my own useless, uninformed, ignorant opinion.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:17 pm

Mitch Nay might have the best power HS bat after Gallo.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby OhioBaseball » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:20 pm

Rocky55 wrote:
TheWord wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:There are better guys going in the comp round than lots of the 1st rounders. I hate the comp round because we NEVER get comp picks.



Based on what?

Nothing but my own useless, uninformed, ignorant opinion.


I agree there are some better guys in the comp round than some 1st rounders. Brian Johnson and James Ramsey come to mind. Even though I kind of like Ramsey, there were numerous comp guys that I'd rather have. Gallo, McCullers, Smoral to name only a few.

Funny seeing Lance McCullers, Jr. go b/c right afterward they showed his dad's tapes in the majors -- they both have almost the same exact arm action -- pretty striking similarity.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:33 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:His bat projects better in CF than 3B though (and heck, no worse than 2B with the evolution of the positions). Guess it depends on if he can stick in center. I think he could handle it but we'll see. We are playing Brantley there now. A move to 2B could make sense, but I agree with you on his arm being a waste there.

Giolito...think that's a causality of not really knowing how the new draft is gonna work. Only about $4.5M to play with in 10 rounds, Giolito could have taken most of that leaving you with an injured high schooler and nothing else. Nats have so many young guys plus the ability to go out and sign a big free agent if needed that I think it's an easier risk to take for them. Still gonna be a tough sign.


CF is a stretch. #1 - If you are moved off the position in college (Naquin played RF at Texas A&M), you've got an uphill battle to play the position at the major league level.

#2 - If you watch his tapes on YouTube, he lacks a good first step and even once he gets running underway it's OK speed, but underwhelming. He can overcome those athletic limitations if he's got good instincts, which I don't know about b/c I haven't regularly watched him.

I hope he works out. I mean, maybe he's Ichiro Suzuki with less speed? Could be, but still a bit of a stretch. He probably stands a better chance at CF than 3b or 2b (he's never even played the infield as far as I know), but it just seems like not such a great pick to me. There were lots of good players available at 15; even without Giolito, there were a few good college arms there in Stratton, Wacha and Stroman. To take a guy that is a tweener in the middle of the first round, it's just a bit of a reach. I'm glad they didn't take Heaney, but I was hoping for more upside than Naquin.

I'm not hating on this pick to be a jerk or anything. I started this thread in June/July of 2011 and wrote this on Naquin in the first post of the thread (and my opinion hasn't really changed on him)...

"Tyler Naquin – RF Texas A&M – It’s pretty easy to overlook him b/c while he’s tall, he does not have a strong body build. He’s got a narrow body and will likely always have below average power for a corner outfielder; he can gain strength but it won’t be much. He’s not a no-tools college outfield prospect, though. His arm strength is surprisingly good so he could hang in RF. His swing is quick and translates well to wood. I could not take this guy in the top 20 overall, but college position prospects are weak again this year and a team could reach for this guy if they see some Dustin Ackley in him, which isn’t a big stretch b/c they have some similarities.

Potential – Dustin Ackley in a corner OF spot.
Realistic Outcome – A good 4th outfielder
."


I wouldn't rule out CF just because he played RF in college. As everyone has said (and you can clearly see from watching him) he was a very good arm. You don't worry about where his bat fits best in college like you would in the pros, so you stick him in RF where his arm will help you out the best. Obviously if he was a great CFer you would leave him there regardless of his arm. And does he have the best range for CF? No, but again you're talking about an organization that plays Brantley in CF who is no better instinctively or with the first step (from the little I've seen of Naquin at least, though tape is not the best way to judge that IMO). There are lots of people that think he has a realisitc chance of playing CF in the bigs. Won't be winning any gold gloves but with work could be league average IMO.

I take a lot of heat for being so down on Brantley in CF. but he has improved some. Seems "liveable" i guess in CF, at least in Progressive Field's OF. You're talking about a guy who was around Naquin's age and stuck in LF (and hell, 1B even) with the Brewers.


And I don't think you're being a jerk or anything here OB. For the record I agree with you on the pick (for the most part). Pretty much everyone you mentioned I would have prefered. I just think he can play CF...though I definitely think he could be stuck in RF without much power....which is not good. I'm probably being too optimistic, but I think there's as good as a 50-50 chance he could stick in CF. Still don't like the pick even if he does, but can understand it at least and think it becomes an ok pick in a down draft year.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby homerawayfromhome » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:32 am

Center of the dIamond players were highly coveted, many of the guys on / off the board to this point and I believe all the way up to pk 25 (Shaffer) we're center of the diamond players.

Naquin lacks the sex appeal of a first rd pk but truth be told many of these guys had close grades. That said there were about 5 players I would prefer over Naquin. My first thought was an intentional over draft by the Tribe but I'm not sure. (my personal favorites at that point...) Giolito was a high risk pk / potentially high reward. Piscotty and Shaffer corner bats... McCullers has his own concerns (reliever) as does Lucas Sims the other arm I liked there.
Chris Stratton had all the national hype but honestly I didn't see it and apparently neither did the Tribe.
Tyler Naquin is a more qk than fast CF, with a plus arm that offsets the lack of speed in CF. Naquin has room for about 10-15 lbs of bulk that if added properly will help boost arm strength and power and could potentially help add a bit of speed too. Naquin doesn't have the flash of former Brad Grant pks but appears as a kid who could move rather qkly through a system lacking OF depth. IMO Naquin ends up a 1 / 2 hole hitter with a .300 BA. Naquin looks the part of Brantley with a better arm / better avg. hitter.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby PEngle39 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:17 am

OhioBaseball wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
OhioBaseball wrote:Naquin shouldn't have gone where he did. If the Indians are going to use him as an OF'er then I think it's a flat out bad pick. He's a total 'tweener in the OF. He's got a really smallish body frame; there's not big enough bones there to put on some meat. Naquin could very well slap his way to a .300 average in the major leagues -- the guy is a good hitter, but this is the kind of stuff you say about 2nd and 3rd rounders.

I may be over-thinking this, but are the Indians planning to convert Naquin to the infield? This is the same organization that moved a tweener in the OF in Jason Kipnis to 2B and it's worked out extremely well. One guy that Naquin reminds me of (although Naquin has a more narrow body frame and won't have the power potential) is Dustin Ackley. Ackley played 1B and CF at North Carolina and had the athleticism to play 2b, he moved there and he's worked out OK so far. Naquin is a similar tweener player with athleticism with a similar kind of bat to Ackley. Second base seems like a waste of his arm; maybe 3b?

One big difference betwene Naquin and Kipnis is that Kinpis actually played the infield in the Cape League (not a ton of games, though), whereas I don't believe Naquin has the experience. Naquin is a pretty good defensive OF'er so moving him off the position may seem dumb, but I just don't see how you can legitimately take a guy with Naquin's skill set (really doesn't profile as a good starting OF in MLB) in the middle of the first round unless you have plans on moving him to a position where his bat projects better.

Like I said, maybe I'm overthinking this. It could have just been a signability pick, or maybe the Indians just don't know what the hell they are doing (I don't believe that's the case). Maybe signability in the first round and someone like McCullers, Gallo or Smoral fall to the second round and the Indians nab one of them.

It really sucks when Lucas Giolito is on the board when you select and you go with a guy that projects as a 4th outfielder on a good team. Yeah, the price tag between Giolito and Naquin is very different, but five years from now even $2-$3 million difference in their price tags may look like chump change.


His bat projects better in CF than 3B though (and heck, no worse than 2B with the evolution of the positions). Guess it depends on if he can stick in center. I think he could handle it but we'll see. We are playing Brantley there now. A move to 2B could make sense, but I agree with you on his arm being a waste there.

Giolito...think that's a causality of not really knowing how the new draft is gonna work. Only about $4.5M to play with in 10 rounds, Giolito could have taken most of that leaving you with an injured high schooler and nothing else. Nats have so many young guys plus the ability to go out and sign a big free agent if needed that I think it's an easier risk to take for them. Still gonna be a tough sign.


CF is a stretch. #1 - If you are moved off the position in college (Naquin played RF at Texas A&M), you've got an uphill battle to play the position at the major league level.

#2 - If you watch his tapes on YouTube, he lacks a good first step and even once he gets running underway it's OK speed, but underwhelming. He can overcome those athletic limitations if he's got good instincts, which I don't know about b/c I haven't regularly watched him.

I hope he works out. I mean, maybe he's Ichiro Suzuki with less speed? Could be, but still a bit of a stretch. He probably stands a better chance at CF than 3b or 2b (he's never even played the infield as far as I know), but it just seems like not such a great pick to me. There were lots of good players available at 15; even without Giolito, there were a few good college arms there in Stratton, Wacha and Stroman. To take a guy that is a tweener in the middle of the first round, it's just a bit of a reach. I'm glad they didn't take Heaney, but I was hoping for more upside than Naquin.

I'm not hating on this pick to be a jerk or anything. I started this thread in June/July of 2011 and wrote this on Naquin in the first post of the thread (and my opinion hasn't really changed on him)...

"Tyler Naquin – RF Texas A&M – It’s pretty easy to overlook him b/c while he’s tall, he does not have a strong body build. He’s got a narrow body and will likely always have below average power for a corner outfielder; he can gain strength but it won’t be much. He’s not a no-tools college outfield prospect, though. His arm strength is surprisingly good so he could hang in RF. His swing is quick and translates well to wood. I could not take this guy in the top 20 overall, but college position prospects are weak again this year and a team could reach for this guy if they see some Dustin Ackley in him, which isn’t a big stretch b/c they have some similarities.

Potential – Dustin Ackley in a corner OF spot.
Realistic Outcome – A good 4th outfielder
."

To be fair, I also did not have great things to say about Jason Kipnis when the Indians drafted him. I thought he was a 4th outfielder. My opinion changed on Kipnis once he started to gain traction as a legit 2b, and frankly, even if he were still a corner outfielder his bat would easily play there. The Indians would have no problem at all slotting him in LF everyday right now! Kipnis worked out exceptionally well and the Indians deserve credit and hopefully they are more right than I am on Naquin.


OB, i really respect your opinion on here but i think you're very very wrong about Naquin. I had the chance to see him last summer when he was with the USA National Collegiate Team in Durham, NC and saw a number of A&M games on TV this season. First off, he is the epitome of the "new" direction of the Indians. He's a total dirtbag, great make-up, and brings an advanced approach at the plate. This is evidenced by the fact that his triple slash line with USA was .321/.373/ .547 with 2 HR, 4 2B, 1 3B, 10 RBI in 12 games and that was with a wood bat and actually got pitches to hit, unlike his junior year at A&M.

For how good A&M was this season, they couldn't hit for a lick. Naquin was pitched around all game, every game and still hit .380 on the season. He should've walked more but he kind-of pressed to make things happen but still produced a triple slash line of .380/.458/.541 which is pretty good for a guy who didn't get a whole lot to hit this season. I think this is a fine pick for the Indians. He has enough pop in the bat for 12-18 HR's a season in his prime and will play a very very solid OF position. I just see a Kipnis type player whose tools will play up because of his instincts and very strong outfield arm. I don't think he's a superstar but more of a "glue" guy in a strong lineup.

Also, a guy to keep an eye on for the Indians in round 2 is Alec Rash, a big RHP from an Iowa HS-- HUGE upside, kind-of fits their mold for pitchers.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby daingean » Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:21 am

Thoughts on Tyler Naquin:

1. Certainly would have wanted more power out of a #15 pick but there are enough short porches in the AL for this guy to hit 15-25 HR's a year.

2. Good solid hitter may slot in the #2 or #3 hole by the time he gets to the show. He has the bat to move at a nice pace (wouldn't say a fast track bat but nice enough to start at MV this summer and Carolina/Akron next)

3. Nice OF arm which this organization lacks.

4. I don't really care that he hits lefty. By the time he is ready for the show, the composition of the ML team will have changed.

5. Enough speed to get his 15-25 SB's a year

Actually, if he develops like above. A good comp may be Choo (but right now, I'd say he comps pretty well to Chiz when he was drafted.)
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby criznit2009 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:27 am

daingean wrote:Thoughts on Tyler Naquin:

1. Certainly would have wanted more power out of a #15 pick but there are enough short porches in the AL for this guy to hit 15-25 HR's a year.

2. Good solid hitter may slot in the #2 or #3 hole by the time he gets to the show. He has the bat to move at a nice pace (wouldn't say a fast track bat but nice enough to start at MV this summer and Carolina/Akron next)

3. Nice OF arm which this organization lacks.

4. I don't really care that he hits lefty. By the time he is ready for the show, the composition of the ML team will have changed.

5. Enough speed to get his 15-25 SB's a year

Actually, if he develops like above. A good comp may be Choo (but right now, I'd say he comps pretty well to Chiz when he was drafted.)


Love the optimism - but will believe it when i see it. If he makes any noise past AA it will be as a Tim Fedroff with better defensive skills. 15-25 in HR's is a huge gap between POWER and SKILL. He will lucky if he will get 10 HR's in his entire ML career - this pick STINKS, no matter what color you want to line it with.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby homerawayfromhome » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:00 am

I'll admit to being disappointed with this pk.
However, I actually trust Grant, he has done well with past drafts.
David Dahl would have been the pk if he were there, but he wasn't. Furthermore, when Grant said there was depth in college pitching it did not indicate the Tribe would take one. Truth is several of those guys were so similar they were difficult to separate.
I hated to pass on Giolito, this kid is going to be special...IF he is healthy and can stay that way, I believe he needs TJ and has only prolonged this process to maintain value. What if he has TJ and in 2/3 yrs he blows up again? Everyone would have been saying the pk was a bust.
I'll take the wait and see approach, obviously, each of the guys on the board had concerns.
Giolito -health.
Shaffer -k's and positional value.
Piscotty -power at the corner?
McCullers -SP / RP, delivery.
Sims -SP / RP.
Wacha -ceiling?
Stratton -ceiling?
Stroman -size.
Trahan -position?
Davis -power?
I looks like the Tribe may be able to save a little on Naquin and go for a cpl hard to sign guys that may slip.
The Tribe has used a similar approach in past drafts, but the CBA has changed things, we'll see today. But I expect another C, a HS power arm and 2/3 safe signing picks.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Tondo » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:03 am

So Naquin it is...as most of us I was pretty surprised as I was expecting 1 of Shaffer, Wacha, Stroman or Stratton...I kind of liked Naquin but thought 15 was too high and no way he would fall to 2-79...still think it was too high with the talent left on the board, but if his selections can net us 2 or 3 more solid specs in later rounds, it could have been a good move, so he better sign under slot....slot money is 2.25mil....I hope he doesn't sign for more than 2mil, as slots 20-30, where he realistically was slated to go are 1.6 to 1.85mil....if we can save 300-500k on him maybe we can gamble on a sliding HS spec/College SO today (Rahier, Buttrey, Mitch Brown, C.Kelly, A.Wood, H.Virant)...that would basically come close to a "trade down" getting two 25 to 50 ranked specs for the money of 1-15 and 2-79 and I would be ok with that scenario, especially if we get 1 of the arms....so any word if we reached a pre-draft $ agreement with Naquin?

Then again, the pessimist in me is asking if Naquin really is a much better prospect than T.Holt or Fedroff coming out of College? Those guys also had the "hit tool" going for them...and they hit for more power than Naquin....he reminds me more of Fedroff than Holt though as I don't believe he has Holt's speed...and let's be real: Fedroff is destined to be a 4A already...no speed, no power, good AVG, good OBP....looks like a 4th OF at best. Makes you go "hmm" comparing Naquin to Fedroff doesn't it?

Another re-draft possibility for 2-79 is Georgia Southern RHP Chris Beck, whom the Indians drafted out of HS in 2009

It really looks like the best value will be a pitcher, either a more advanced arm like Wood or Beck or another HS guy like Virant, Buttrey or M.Brown...we'll see
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby homerawayfromhome » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:00 am

@ Tondo I was just about to post possible redrafts in Chris Beck and Kevin Brady, both guys have improved previous draft status (by rd) but likely stand to lose $$$ out of it bc of the new CBA.

The Tribe will land a cpl safe pks today, a C, a HS arm and likely another SS. The tribe focus is on middle of the diamond guys. The Tribe as always will draft plenty of arms but I actually expect a fair number of bats to come out of this draft too.

BTW, I fully expect Tyler Naquin to sign for about $1.85 mil. which is about $400 K savings which the Tribe will allocate to a cpl other pks. I expect the Tribe to go big (overslot) with 2/3 of their top 10 pks. Naquin's selection was not one for need as it was organizational value. The Tribe places a heavy emphasis on center of the diamond pks part of the reason why the Tribe has so many middle infield prospects and catchers. Truth is Tribe is backed up with young pitchers too, few however look like FOR types.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby JP_Frost » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:18 am

Both Nick and Trey Williams are still out there, as well as Rio Ruiz and Tony Renda. One of those bats would be nice (Trey please!). Some interesting arms available. The aforementioned Beck and Brady, but also Kline, Barrett, Buehler and Wood. Let's hope we can get some of these guys.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:26 am

The first and comp rounds have come and gone.. The acquisition of Tyler Naquin has left the majority of this forum/board kind of stunned/unsure. The "trust in brad grant" community has spoken and with good reason. The Indians first round pick just doesn't have the sexiness of a first round talent..

Tyler Naquin is a good player... squares the ball up on the bat.. plays good defense.. has okay speed.. can hit with some power.. but the only thing that really stands out about him is his arm strength.. it's a "meh.. could have / should have done better" with the pick selection...

The question becomes.. is he Trevor Crowe?. or will he become Jacoby Ellsbury without the speed?. When Crowe was selected, it was said, at 6'1", 190, he had an athletic frame with a short compact swing that made good contact with occasional power. He was more of a line drive hitter to all fields and had above average to very good baseball instincts. Sort of the same guy as Tyler Naquin at the same time 6'1" 185 yada yada. While injuries have derailed Crowe's career with the Indians, there is no reason to believe the same set backs will befall Naquin.. We shall see.. At this time, the "ho hum'ness" of this pick takes the 'buzzzzzz' to a relatively low level...

The Indians have the 79th overall pick this afternoon.. It appears to be a bit more pressing on the Indians to look at some "upside" talent that can excite Chief Wahoo's Tribe.. Hopefully, the Indians won't "swing and miss" like they did when they passed on Lucas Giolito, who went one pick after Tyler Naquin was selected.. hopefully, the Indians don't rue this passing..
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby JP_Frost » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:31 am

Let's wait and see if Giolioti signs, for how much and if he's healthy.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby homerawayfromhome » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:43 am

Here's a link from MLB.com interview with Naquin on being drafted by the Tribe.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?conte ... 4&c_id=mlb

Naquin's goal is to add more size/ strength which could add some more pop to his bat, speed on the base path and boost an already strong OF arm.
One consistent comment I keep hearing on Naquin is "he's a hitter".
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