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BA ttop 20 AFl

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby jellis » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:43 pm

Well no Indians made the top 20 prospects in the AFL. In the chat section only one Indians questions came up

Q: JAYPERS from IL asks:
Did Wes Hodges get consideration for this list? What kept him off? His AFL numbers certainly weren't the reason.
A:

Kary Booher: Hodges was one of the few bright spots on that Surprise team the first few weeks when it struggled, and their manager, Gary Allenson, did like his bat a lot. But Allenson, like many of the scouts, wondered about his third-base defense. Some of it was his arm strength. But he also looked like, at times, he had trouble getting his feet right on sharply hit grounders and didn't quite have the grace you need to play off the line.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Jake Taylor » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:43 am

Not too surprising. None of the pitchers were outstanding by any stretch, Rodriguez was awful, Mills was so-so at best, Head was okay on the Taxi-squad, and Hodges' defense just keeps coming into question time after time.

Maybe the reason we exposed Brown is because Hodges is making the move to first... I highly doubt we're counting on Aubrey or Head to make a significant impact.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:45 am

IMO, BA is seriously undervaluing and knocking Hodges for his defense which is not as bad as it is being portrayed to be. I can't believe how much they are dissing him over some questionable defense. Ultimately: Have bat, will play.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby carnegie44115 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:23 am

Another way to look at these guys when they rank these guys, is they are rating the best, so the best prospects in the AFL. Hodge's defense held him back from being ranked and thats fine with me because you just dont see great defensive 3Bs a lot, you see more SS, 2Bs, 1Bs because they are easier from a defensive standpoint. So these guys that do these rankings are going to trash his defensive skills because he isn't the best defensive 3B, I think he will be an average defender at third, and with his bat potential, I think that would be just fine.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:54 am

Consigliere wrote:IMO, BA is seriously undervaluing and knocking Hodges for his defense which is not as bad as it is being portrayed to be. I can't believe how much they are dissing him over some questionable defense. Ultimately: Have bat, will play.


Exactly. Thome was pretty lousy over there but had an advanced bat. If he hits like he did this past year in Columbus he could easily see some time in Cleveland next season.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Duane Kuiper » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:59 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
Consigliere wrote:IMO, BA is seriously undervaluing and knocking Hodges for his defense which is not as bad as it is being portrayed to be. I can't believe how much they are dissing him over some questionable defense. Ultimately: Have bat, will play.


Exactly. Thome was pretty lousy over there but had an advanced bat. If he hits like he did this past year in Columbus he could easily see some time in Cleveland next season.
At what position? It won't be at 3B if he doesn't improve from his 36 errrors there in 08.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:06 pm

Yup, at 3B. Tribe doesn't put that big a premium at 3B in the majors. Obviously he will need to cut down on the errors some. And where did you see 36 errosrs? I saw 28 at Akron in 2008....or are you counting the AFL league stats too?
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby jellis » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:11 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
Consigliere wrote:IMO, BA is seriously undervaluing and knocking Hodges for his defense which is not as bad as it is being portrayed to be. I can't believe how much they are dissing him over some questionable defense. Ultimately: Have bat, will play.


Exactly. Thome was pretty lousy over there but had an advanced bat. If he hits like he did this past year in Columbus he could easily see some time in Cleveland next season.



thome wasnt great but he was actually better, I hope hodges proves everyone wrong and I think there is a chance of it, just not one i would be willing to gamble on at this point. Even more than his defense it was the second half slide that soured me on Hodges
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby carnegie44115 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:17 pm

jellis wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Consigliere wrote:IMO, BA is seriously undervaluing and knocking Hodges for his defense which is not as bad as it is being portrayed to be. I can't believe how much they are dissing him over some questionable defense. Ultimately: Have bat, will play.


Exactly. Thome was pretty lousy over there but had an advanced bat. If he hits like he did this past year in Columbus he could easily see some time in Cleveland next season.



thome wasnt great but he was actually better, I hope hodges proves everyone wrong and I think there is a chance of it, just not one i would be willing to gamble on at this point. Even more than his defense it was the second half slide that soured me on Hodges



I think his second half decline can be considered for being fatigued from playing, if you noticed, after he got some time off after the playoffs, he goes out to AZ and absolutely has one of the best performances of the guys out there. Obviously he isn't going to hit like that from now on, but you really discount his stats very much either since all those guys out there were mostly AA and AAA pitchers, unlike in the Hawaiian league.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby jellis » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:03 pm

carnegie44115 wrote:
jellis wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Consigliere wrote:IMO, BA is seriously undervaluing and knocking Hodges for his defense which is not as bad as it is being portrayed to be. I can't believe how much they are dissing him over some questionable defense. Ultimately: Have bat, will play.


Exactly. Thome was pretty lousy over there but had an advanced bat. If he hits like he did this past year in Columbus he could easily see some time in Cleveland next season.



thome wasnt great but he was actually better, I hope hodges proves everyone wrong and I think there is a chance of it, just not one i would be willing to gamble on at this point. Even more than his defense it was the second half slide that soured me on Hodges



I think his second half decline can be considered for being fatigued from playing, if you noticed, after he got some time off after the playoffs, he goes out to AZ and absolutely has one of the best performances of the guys out there. Obviously he isn't going to hit like that from now on, but you really discount his stats very much either since all those guys out there were mostly AA and AAA pitchers, unlike in the Hawaiian league.



I am not sure if it was fatigue or pitchers catching up to him. Not being able to see him I have to rely on information gather, history, and stats. If we are lucky he was just fatigued if we aren't the pitchers in AA figure him out and were able to get him out and also i dont think we can really count the AFL stats every hitter had an amazing time there this year. It was a sick hitters league this year and the pitching was very rough
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby gotribe31 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:09 pm

I don't buy it...if his issues are truly arm strength and quick reactions...then 2B would be an IDEAL spot for him and the Indians would have at least had him try out the position. I have never seen him play so I can't comment on how good/bad his defense really is, but I doubt BA has seen all that much of him either. Most of these scouts see a guy once or twice a year, and judge the player on that very limited sample set.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Duane Kuiper » Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:21 am

Hermie, 28 errors in 125 games at AA plus 8 errors in 25 games in the AFL equal 36 errors in 150 games. That's about how many games a ML plays.

That's unacceptable for any 3B.
I don't buy it...if his issues are truly arm strength and quick reactions...then 2B would be an IDEAL spot for him and the Indians would have at least had him try out the position.

One scout said he had problems with his footwork. So that would make him unable to play 2B where footwork is much needed to do things like turn the DP and make throws from behind 2B.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:22 am

Thome was terrible at 3B in the minors. Many people felt he'd never make it because of it (Mark Lewis was up because of it). The joke was if you wanted a souvenoir, just sit behind 1B and you were bound to catch an errant throw from Thome.

I agree, 36 errors is terrible. But just cutting down to 26-28 is manageable for a ML 3B. Most 3Bs make 15-20 errors so not that outrageous. And again, if he hits like he did again this year, he'll stay at 3B.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby jellis » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:30 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Thome was terrible at 3B in the minors. Many people felt he'd never make it because of it (Mark Lewis was up because of it). The joke was if you wanted a souvenoir, just sit behind 1B and you were bound to catch an errant throw from Thome.

I agree, 36 errors is terrible. But just cutting down to 26-28 is manageable for a ML 3B. Most 3Bs make 15-20 errors so not that outrageous. And again, if he hits like he did again this year, he'll stay at 3B.



26-28 is very outrageous he would lead the league by a solid margin and since he has just ok footwork, its not like he gets to a lot of balls so he would be messing up the ones that come his way. Only one player had more than 23 which was mark reynolds, 14 is about the average so you are talking double that which to me is the defination of outrageous
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:44 pm

Adrian Beltre made 18 and won a GG. Made 29 his second year in the league as well. He's obviously improved as he's aged, but shows that a great bat makes up for the errors early on (and like I said, Hodges has to hit...if he doesn't then he won't be up).

There's a few others that make more than 20 errors in a season or close to it (Atkins and Encarnacion for starters).

14 is FAR from average for a 3B. That would be about the best in the league considering Beltre made 14 last year. I'd say 18-20 is average for a 3B.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby jellis » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:49 pm

no using qualified hitters pedro felix,joel hannahan, and Troy Glaus all had under 10 errors. Only 3 players had 20 or more erros Cantu with 20, EE with 23, and reynolds with 34, some one who was maglined in our system like Kouzmanoff only had 11. The next highest was Aram with 18.There were 20 qualified 3B last year with a total of 302 errors so I was wrong the exact average among starting firstbaseman is 15 26-28 is still nearly double and not acceptable
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:20 pm

Felix and Hannahan didn't play in 130 games though. They'd have made more if they played full seasons. You can't just use the 'qualified' players.

Crede didn't qualify yet made 20 errors at 3B this year. Carlos Guillen didn't qualify and made 14 errors in less than 100 games at 3B. Jose Castillo made 15 errors in less than 100 starts at 3B.

Bill Hall was qualifited but didn't start 100 games at 3B, yet made 17 errors.

The average is more than 15. Closer to 18-20 like I said. Not saying that 26-28 wouldn't still be bad for Hodges, but if he put up solid offensive numbers, you'd deal with it.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Duane Kuiper » Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:15 pm

Sorry, a bad 3B with a bad SS just kills your pitching staff and no amount of offense can fix that.

Errors and missed plays run up scores and pitch counts. It kills the pitcher's attitude. It wears out pitchers late in the season. In low scoring PO games, for defense is the difference between wins and losses.

It is especially bad because the Indians pitchers don't SO many batters.

The Indians will never will a WS with Hodges and Peralta on the left side.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby jellis » Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:31 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Felix and Hannahan didn't play in 130 games though. They'd have made more if they played full seasons. You can't just use the 'qualified' players.

Crede didn't qualify yet made 20 errors at 3B this year. Carlos Guillen didn't qualify and made 14 errors in less than 100 games at 3B. Jose Castillo made 15 errors in less than 100 starts at 3B.

Bill Hall was qualifited but didn't start 100 games at 3B, yet made 17 errors.

The average is more than 15. Closer to 18-20 like I said. Not saying that 26-28 wouldn't still be bad for Hodges, but if he put up solid offensive numbers, you'd deal with it.



the reason those people didnt play heavily at 3B was they werent doing a good job the average would stay in the mid teens, your statement of 26-28 being ok is still way way off. 26-28 is horrid and Hodges needs to show a drastic improvement this year
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:57 am

Duane Kuiper wrote:Sorry, a bad 3B with a bad SS just kills your pitching staff and no amount of offense can fix that.

Errors and missed plays run up scores and pitch counts. It kills the pitcher's attitude. It wears out pitchers late in the season. In low scoring PO games, for defense is the difference between wins and losses.

It is especially bad because the Indians pitchers don't SO many batters.

The Indians will never will a WS with Hodges and Peralta on the left side.


With Hodges playing defense like last year...no, they won't. But if he improves to respectable numbers there, they easily could. I'd love to see better defense on the infield (having Omar did wonders for those 90s staffs)....but Peralta has improved the last couple years defensively, which is a good sign. Still think eventually he'll be at 3B and Hodges will be traded......but again, if he hits like he did this year again next year, he'll force himself into the lineup at 3B....
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:59 am

jellis wrote:the reason those people didnt play heavily at 3B was they werent doing a good job the average would stay in the mid teens, your statement of 26-28 being ok is still way way off. 26-28 is horrid and Hodges needs to show a drastic improvement this year


Well Pefro Felix is typically a pretty solid 3B. He battled the injury bug a bit this year, which is why he didn't get more than 130 games. But if he had, he'd have made closer to 11-12 errors.

Never said Hodges didn't need to show a lot of improvement. But very bad defensive 3Bs have forced their way into lineups before (Braun 2 years ago, and Gamel may this year for the Brewers). And again, Beltre made nearly 30 errors during his second ML season. Hodges still has time to improve, but better start showing it next year....
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Duane Kuiper » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:33 pm

Hermie13 wrote:but Peralta has improved the last couple years defensively, which is a good sign.

Peralta hasn't improved. He is what he is and he isn't going to get better. Probably worse.

His TFB +/- numbers
2006 -9
2007 -3
2008 -11
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:43 pm

That may be so, but he has shown some better range and after the eye surgery has been better (very suprised to see the -11 number, but all that could mean is SS's were better as a group this year than in previous years).

He's about average defensively (ok, maybe slightly below). Zone rating is about average for a SS and has cut down on the erratic throws.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby jellis » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:31 pm

I dont see it I wasnt hugely impressed by hodges over all numbers, his second half stumble really made his numbers good but not great. Is his bat really that much better than Jordan Brown's?
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Duane Kuiper » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:31 pm

Peralta's rank among ML SS according to TFB.

2006 27th
2007 22nd
2008 30th.

Even on balls in the air Peralta has been regressing.
2006 +4
2007 0
2008 -3

UZR doesn't like Peralta either.
2006 2nd worst in the ML for qualified SS
2007 6th worst
2008 4th worst
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... 08&month=0
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:34 am

Duane Kuiper wrote:Peralta's rank among ML SS according to TFB.

2006 27th
2007 22nd
2008 30th.

Even on balls in the air Peralta has been regressing.
2006 +4
2007 0
2008 -3

UZR doesn't like Peralta either.
2006 2nd worst in the ML for qualified SS
2007 6th worst
2008 4th worst
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... 08&month=0


I assume that by posting this that you believed that it was relevant to the topic or would enlighten us. It did neither.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:31 am

jellis wrote:I dont see it I wasnt hugely impressed by hodges over all numbers, his second half stumble really made his numbers good but not great. Is his bat really that much better than Jordan Brown's?


The power numbers are. Hodges slugged 18 HRs at Akron this year (and their larger park that's not a power park at all). Brown only managed 11 in an 'mvp' season there. for a corner infielder, you need more power than that. Not saying I don't like Brown, but Hodges still had a great season and showed that he's still got it with the strong offensive showing in the AFL.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:33 am

Duane Kuiper wrote:Peralta's rank among ML SS according to TFB.

2006 27th
2007 22nd
2008 30th.

Even on balls in the air Peralta has been regressing.
2006 +4
2007 0
2008 -3

UZR doesn't like Peralta either.
2006 2nd worst in the ML for qualified SS
2007 6th worst
2008 4th worst
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... 08&month=0


Throw all the stats you want out there. If you watched enough games this year you'd have seen that Peralta actually did improve his range some and was getting to more balls the last 2 years. He's definately not a gold glover, but a steady middle infielder with a very strong arm.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Duane Kuiper » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:14 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:I assume that by posting this that you believed that it was relevant to the topic or would enlighten us. It did neither.

Obviously you missed where we were discussing the defense on the left side of the infield. So Peralta's stats are relevent.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Duane Kuiper » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:16 pm

Hermie13 wrote:If you watched enough games this year you'd have seen that Peralta actually did improve his range some and was getting to more balls the last 2 years. He's definately not a gold glover, but a steady middle infielder with a very strong arm.

People that watch games for a living disagree with you. I'll trust them before I trust you.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:05 am

Duane Kuiper wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:I assume that by posting this that you believed that it was relevant to the topic or would enlighten us. It did neither.

Obviously you missed where we were discussing the defense on the left side of the infield. So Peralta's stats are relevent.


Obviously, the only reason Peralta came into this post was because you brought him in, probably so you could bring forth your little book of meaningless statistics. This had nothing to do with the AFL when you brought it up and has nothing to do with it now. Real defensive statistics do not support you. It is easy to pick statistics to support an inept conclusion. The real trick is use the full range of information available. The most valuable of these is observation of play which does not appear to be your strength. Explanation is faulty. :s_rofl
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:32 pm

Duane Kuiper wrote:People that watch games for a living disagree with you. I'll trust them before I trust you.


ha, well I'd hope so.

But a lot of people that watch baseball for a living do agree with me (or actually, I'm agreeing with them). He has kinda grown out of the position, but still manages himself well enough there. Was in a bit better shape and able to move around more this year.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Duane Kuiper » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:52 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:
Duane Kuiper wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:I assume that by posting this that you believed that it was relevant to the topic or would enlighten us. It did neither.

Obviously you missed where we were discussing the defense on the left side of the infield. So Peralta's stats are relevent.


Obviously, the only reason Peralta came into this post was because you brought him in, probably so you could bring forth your little book of meaningless statistics. This had nothing to do with the AFL when you brought it up and has nothing to do with it now. Real defensive statistics do not support you. It is easy to pick statistics to support an inept conclusion. The real trick is use the full range of information available. The most valuable of these is observation of play which does not appear to be your strength. Explanation is faulty.

Wow you are so clueless. TFB, RZR, UZR are not real defensive stats? Ha Ha

If you think Peralta is average or better then you are the inept one.

TFB, RZR, UZR, other fans http://www.tangotiger.net/scouting/scou ... 7_CLE.html and my eyes all say that Peralta is below average. I don't know what more you think I should look at. If you watch Peralta and see an average to above average SS then I can't help you.

Are you his agent or his relative?

The main discussion was Hodges. Who plays SS besides Hodges if he makes the ML is relevent to the success of the team.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:32 pm

Can Hodges and Peralta both play on the left side of the infield? Yes. Would that be an ideal left side defensively? of course not.

But if both guys can hit 20+ HRs and drive in 80+ runs, it's managable. Florida played well with Cantu and Ramirez on the left side (not to mention Uggla at 2B and Jacobs at 1B). Peralta is as good or better defensively than Ramirez at SS. Cantu is better right now than Hodges defensively, though Hodges still has room for improvement.

He has to continue to hit this year in Columbus and improve some defensively though if he wants to crack the ML lineup.

Florida isn't the only team either to take offense over defense on the left side. I do agree that you'd prefer much better defense on the infield, epsecially with our pitchers being 'pitch to contact' types......but if we can't get something better, it's still a possibility for us.....
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Duane Kuiper » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:23 pm

Florida didn't win anything so how does that help your argument?
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:13 pm

Duane Kuiper wrote:Florida didn't win anything so how does that help your argument?


Cleveland had 3 gold glove winners on the infield in 2000 and won nothing as well (Fryman, Vizquel, and Alomar)....Having a great infield doesn't gurantee you anything either.

Marlins still had a great season for how young that team was and without a solid bullpen.

Point here is that the Tribe can have both Peralta and Hodges on the left side. Definately not anyone's ideal situation though....
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:00 pm

Duane Kuiper wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:
Duane Kuiper wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:I assume that by posting this that you believed that it was relevant to the topic or would enlighten us. It did neither.

Obviously you missed where we were discussing the defense on the left side of the infield. So Peralta's stats are relevent.


Obviously, the only reason Peralta came into this post was because you brought him in, probably so you could bring forth your little book of meaningless statistics. This had nothing to do with the AFL when you brought it up and has nothing to do with it now. Real defensive statistics do not support you. It is easy to pick statistics to support an inept conclusion. The real trick is use the full range of information available. The most valuable of these is observation of play which does not appear to be your strength. Explanation is faulty.

Wow you are so clueless. TFB, RZR, UZR are not real defensive stats? Ha Ha

If you think Peralta is average or better then you are the inept one.

TFB, RZR, UZR, other fans http://www.tangotiger.net/scouting/scou ... 7_CLE.html and my eyes all say that Peralta is below average. I don't know what more you think I should look at. If you watch Peralta and see an average to above average SS then I can't help you.

Are you his agent or his relative?

The main discussion was Hodges. Who plays SS besides Hodges if he makes the ML is relevent to the success of the team.


As long as you have chosen to make this a personal attack rather than dealing with the post, I feel comfortable responding in kind. I apologize to Tony and the other posters but this ignorant toad is so stupid that a response that his tiny mind can grasp is in order.

First of all, dumbo, I made no reference to Peralta's ability one way or the other. In your ignorance and efforts to intimidate, that fact eluded you. I said that this post is not about Peralta and that your statistics are not the best evaluation of his defensive prowess. Instead of confronting those obvious facts, you chose to attack me personally about your clear shortcomings in the area. I can understand why you are defensive because you don't know jack. You are a pathetic little dweeb who knows nothing about baseball and quotes from books your mommy gave you in the retarded ward.

You couldn't make an analysis of a player's abilities if your life depended upon it. Guys like you are the reason to clean up the gene pool. :s_bomb
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:45 pm

Guys, let's kick it down a few notches. It's only baseball. :s_whiteflag
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby Duane Kuiper » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:02 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:
Duane Kuiper wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:
Duane Kuiper wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:I assume that by posting this that you believed that it was relevant to the topic or would enlighten us. It did neither.

Obviously you missed where we were discussing the defense on the left side of the infield. So Peralta's stats are relevent.


Obviously, the only reason Peralta came into this post was because you brought him in, probably so you could bring forth your little book of meaningless statistics. This had nothing to do with the AFL when you brought it up and has nothing to do with it now. Real defensive statistics do not support you. It is easy to pick statistics to support an inept conclusion. The real trick is use the full range of information available. The most valuable of these is observation of play which does not appear to be your strength. Explanation is faulty.

Wow you are so clueless. TFB, RZR, UZR are not real defensive stats? Ha Ha

If you think Peralta is average or better then you are the inept one.

TFB, RZR, UZR, other fans http://www.tangotiger.net/scouting/scou ... 7_CLE.html and my eyes all say that Peralta is below average. I don't know what more you think I should look at. If you watch Peralta and see an average to above average SS then I can't help you.

Are you his agent or his relative?

The main discussion was Hodges. Who plays SS besides Hodges if he makes the ML is relevent to the success of the team.


As long as you have chosen to make this a personal attack rather than dealing with the post, I feel comfortable responding in kind. I apologize to Tony and the other posters but this ignorant toad is so stupid that a response that his tiny mind can grasp is in order.

First of all, dumbo, I made no reference to Peralta's ability one way or the other. In your ignorance and efforts to intimidate, that fact eluded you. I said that this post is not about Peralta and that your statistics are not the best evaluation of his defensive prowess. Instead of confronting those obvious facts, you chose to attack me personally about your clear shortcomings in the area. I can understand why you are defensive because you don't know jack. You are a pathetic little dweeb who knows nothing about baseball and quotes from books your mommy gave you in the retarded ward.

You couldn't make an analysis of a player's abilities if your life depended upon it. Guys like you are the reason to clean up the gene pool. :s_bomb

You wouldn't have called my stats an "inept conclusion" if you agreed with them.

"Inept conclusion" is an attack on me. Don't give me your sad tale that I made it personal.

But thanks for making a bigger fool of yourself than I could.
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby indianinkslinger » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:58 pm

Duane Kuiper wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:
Duane Kuiper wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:
Duane Kuiper wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:I assume that by posting this that you believed that it was relevant to the topic or would enlighten us. It did neither.

Obviously you missed where we were discussing the defense on the left side of the infield. So Peralta's stats are relevent.


Obviously, the only reason Peralta came into this post was because you brought him in, probably so you could bring forth your little book of meaningless statistics. This had nothing to do with the AFL when you brought it up and has nothing to do with it now. Real defensive statistics do not support you. It is easy to pick statistics to support an inept conclusion. The real trick is use the full range of information available. The most valuable of these is observation of play which does not appear to be your strength. Explanation is faulty.

Wow you are so clueless. TFB, RZR, UZR are not real defensive stats? Ha Ha

If you think Peralta is average or better then you are the inept one.

TFB, RZR, UZR, other fans http://www.tangotiger.net/scouting/scou ... 7_CLE.html and my eyes all say that Peralta is below average. I don't know what more you think I should look at. If you watch Peralta and see an average to above average SS then I can't help you.

Are you his agent or his relative?

The main discussion was Hodges. Who plays SS besides Hodges if he makes the ML is relevent to the success of the team.


As long as you have chosen to make this a personal attack rather than dealing with the post, I feel comfortable responding in kind. I apologize to Tony and the other posters but this ignorant toad is so stupid that a response that his tiny mind can grasp is in order.

First of all, dumbo, I made no reference to Peralta's ability one way or the other. In your ignorance and efforts to intimidate, that fact eluded you. I said that this post is not about Peralta and that your statistics are not the best evaluation of his defensive prowess. Instead of confronting those obvious facts, you chose to attack me personally about your clear shortcomings in the area. I can understand why you are defensive because you don't know jack. You are a pathetic little dweeb who knows nothing about baseball and quotes from books your mommy gave you in the retarded ward.

You couldn't make an analysis of a player's abilities if your life depended upon it. Guys like you are the reason to clean up the gene pool. :s_bomb

You wouldn't have called my stats an "inept conclusion" if you agreed with them.

"Inept conclusion" is an attack on me. Don't give me your sad tale that I made it personal.

But thanks for making a bigger fool of yourself than I could.


"Evelyn, there's no crying in baseball." Jimmy Dugan
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Re: BA ttop 20 AFl

Postby carnegie44115 » Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:54 pm

Now listen to what Rub says about 42 seconds into it

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