Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

by **A.Zajac** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:46 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:Taylor Guerrieri, Sonny Gray, Matt Barnes all falling.

This year's AJ Cole?

Gray off the board. Yeah, I could see an AJ Cole drop for Taylor. I'm a bit surprised.

by **Tondo** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:47 pm

jellis wrote:
Tondo wrote:
You can win a WS with 5 good MORs, since you level your missing ace with above AVG 4th/5th starter...I also consider Pomeranz as a No2, being a FOR/MOR tweener so to say, along with White, who I project a "better" MOR (2/3 tweener), a Jungmann, Carrasco and Tomlin...that could have come true in 2-3 years...along with some other guys we have less knowledge about (McAllister, Soto, Gomez etc)

otoh you won't win shit with 9 .375OBP bats that hit singles 70%+ of their hits

you might not but Lindor is not that either, he is going to be in the top ten in doubles every year

Sure

Let's 1st see if he can handle a true baseball bat...me thinks this will take 2 years at least....I might become a believer if he has a .700OPS (yes, Im setting the bar low) in Kinston in 2013 but I doubt we will see that. He will struggle in MV this year (if he gets there in time) and will struggle in LC next year (600ish OPS)...Indians will probably push him regardless leading to more failure...that's my prognostication....but, like Rivero, he'll be in everyone's top 10-20 regardless....after all he has "high upside"

OAK gets Gray...that's why they have a solid rotation almost every year....full of supposedly MOR guys btw...very good pick at 18...what's wrong with Barnes?

by **Hermie13** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:49 pm

Tondo wrote:OAK gets Gray...that's why they have a solid rotation almost every year....full of supposedly MOR guys btw...very good pick at 18...what's wrong with Barnes?

How many World Series have the A's won/been to in the last 20 years? zero?

Gray very likely is in their pen anyways.

Don't get me wrong, I like guys like Gray and Barnes...but Lindor is a much better prospect. Top 8 on most "experts" boards.

by **Tondo** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:52 pm

Same was said about White...at 18 a pretty good pick....best case another A.White (No2/3 guy), worst case: dominant back end BP arm....THAT folks is a nice mix of "sure" pick AND decent, good enough ceiling, especially at 18 overall

by **entertheshoe** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:52 pm

So it's pretty ridiculous that the Red Sox get the 19th pick (which is now Matt Barnes) and the 36th pick as compensation for Victor Martinez. That makes sense right?

Nick Hagadone
Justin Masterson
Bryan Price

for
Victor Martinez
Matt Barnes
#36 pick

Someone explain to me how that's fair.

by **A.Zajac** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:52 pm

Barnes to Boston. What a steal.

by **A.Zajac** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:53 pm

entertheshoe wrote:So it's pretty ridiculous that the Red Sox get the 19th pick (which is now Matt Barnes) and the 36th pick as compensation for Victor Martinez. That makes sense right?

Nick Hagadone
Justin Masterson
Bryan Price

for
Victor Martinez
Matt Barnes
#36 pick

Someone explain to me how that's fair.

It's not fair, that's just it. Needs to be addressed in new CBA.

by **Hermie13** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:53 pm

Tondo wrote:Same was said about White...at 18 a pretty good pick....best case another A.White (No2/3 guy), worst case: dominant back end BP arm....THAT folks is a nice mix of "sure" pick AND decent, good enough ceiling, especially at 18 overall

If the Indians picked at 18, I'd have had no problem with Gray. But we were picking 8th.

by **Hermie13** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:54 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
entertheshoe wrote:So it's pretty ridiculous that the Red Sox get the 19th pick (which is now Matt Barnes) and the 36th pick as compensation for Victor Martinez. That makes sense right?

Nick Hagadone
Justin Masterson
Bryan Price

for
Victor Martinez
Matt Barnes
#36 pick

Someone explain to me how that's fair.

It's not fair, that's just it. Needs to be addressed in new CBA.

Agree 110%. They got picks last year for Billy Wagner too. At least Victor played there for more than 2 months

by **jellis** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:55 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:OAK gets Gray...that's why they have a solid rotation almost every year....full of supposedly MOR guys btw...very good pick at 18...what's wrong with Barnes?

How many World Series have the A's won/been to in the last 20 years? zero?

Gray very likely is in their pen anyways.

Don't get me wrong, I like guys like Gray and Barnes...but Lindor is a much better prospect. Top 8 on most "experts" boards.

what world do you live in Oakland is not full of MOR guys Cahill and Anderson are two of the top ten arms in the AL, Gonzales has stepped up and is a 2, please cross check your statements

by **entertheshoe** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:56 pm

Anyone else notice that Lindor is the only guy to be drafted so far without a scouting report on the MLB.com tracker?

Whatsupwitdat?

by **A.Zajac** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:57 pm

jellis wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:OAK gets Gray...that's why they have a solid rotation almost every year....full of supposedly MOR guys btw...very good pick at 18...what's wrong with Barnes?

How many World Series have the A's won/been to in the last 20 years? zero?

Gray very likely is in their pen anyways.

Don't get me wrong, I like guys like Gray and Barnes...but Lindor is a much better prospect. Top 8 on most "experts" boards.

what world do you live in Oakland is not full of MOR guys Cahill and Anderson are two of the top ten arms in the AL, Gonzales has stepped up and is a 2, please cross check your statements

+1

by **Hermie13** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:57 pm

jellis wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:OAK gets Gray...that's why they have a solid rotation almost every year....full of supposedly MOR guys btw...very good pick at 18...what's wrong with Barnes?

How many World Series have the A's won/been to in the last 20 years? zero?

Gray very likely is in their pen anyways.

Don't get me wrong, I like guys like Gray and Barnes...but Lindor is a much better prospect. Top 8 on most "experts" boards.

what world do you live in Oakland is not full of MOR guys Cahill and Anderson are two of the top ten arms in the AL, Gonzales has stepped up and is a 2, please cross check your statements

Yeah you beat me to that too. Anderson and Cahill would be our #1 if here....and on several teams

by **JP_Frost** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:58 pm

The guys at PG Crosschecker (or PG America) seem to really like Lindor. One of them is pretty convinced about his power potential and thinks he can hit 15+ HR's.

by **A.Zajac** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:00 pm

Instead of going in with you guys to PG, I've relied on ESPN Insider scouting, as well as Baseball Prospectus. Baseball Prospectus seems to really like him. ESPN doesn't really dog him much either.

by **Tondo** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:01 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Don't get me wrong, I like guys like Gray and Barnes...but Lindor is a much better prospect. Top 8 on most "experts" boards.

As I said...I know about al Perts boards...and they've been wrong on guys like Lindor many, many times before...thats my point...the Indians, for all the reasons I layed out, where the worst possible team to gamble in the a top10 on a guy like that....experts like to overvalue certain positions because of scarcity, same happens in Fantasy Drafts and it's a stupid way of playing a draft imho...you just can't go wrong with BPA and Lindor wasn't a Top 10 pick because he was a top10 baseball talent...he was rated there because he is a SS...and I just don't see the upside with him (becoming much better than AVG MLB SS, who are dime a dozen) legitimizing NOT going BPA...I hope you know where IM coming from now

RedSox get Barnes, lol...rich getting richer

by **jellis** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:02 pm

No one dogs him anywhere cept on this board

by **petes999** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:02 pm

I was worried about how the draft played out. The way I look at it ... I rather have lost one more game and taken Rendon at #6 and slid him in either at 1b or 3b. Yet, for who was on the board, it was a good pick. We will have 2nd base and SS wrapped up for a while with Wolters, Lindor and Rodriquez coming up in a few years. The only other way we could have gone was OF in Springer. I wasn't a fan of either J. Bradley or others on the board as we have most of our rotation set for a few years until Carmona and Masterson are up for FA with several MOR in our system. We needed FOR potential which wasn't there for the price to pay. We have Carmona, Masterson, Carrasco, White, Pom, Knapp, Barnes, ..... who else did we need to put in the mix??? We needed a HS arm that is 3-5 year away for 2015 season and beyond when we lose Carmona and Masterson and Perez. And, in actuality, the people to replace this trio is probably going to come from the trades of Sizemore and Hafner if we are not in contention next year. So, you look for upside and he was the best here. So, you get a GG SS and you have a tradable asset even if Wolters or Rodriquez comes up first.

Now, if Lindor signs for $2.5 million or less -- a $0.5 million more then Deshields last year in 8th spot, you have $2.5 million more than you would have spent at least in Starling or Bradley --- if the get what they want -- on those that fall into later rounds. Of course, I would have wanted one of them at $3 million or so -- what Tallion and Machado got, but who knows how much they are going to pry away with their football scholarships.

by **Lloyd Christmas** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:02 pm

Hearing that Lindor is coming straight to the bigs to replace Orlando Cabrera at 2B

by **petes999** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:04 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
entertheshoe wrote:So it's pretty ridiculous that the Red Sox get the 19th pick (which is now Matt Barnes) and the 36th pick as compensation for Victor Martinez. That makes sense right?

Nick Hagadone
Justin Masterson
Bryan Price

for
Victor Martinez
Matt Barnes
#36 pick

Someone explain to me how that's fair.

You also forget about $2.5 million we saved from not drafting Hagadone and Masterson ... so we get 3-4 flyers as well and in hindsight Hagadone has not lived up to potential like the #36 pick may not ...

It's not fair, that's just it. Needs to be addressed in new CBA.

by **A.Zajac** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:05 pm

Potential future infield: 3B Chisenhall SS Lindor 2B Kipnis 1B LaPorta C Santana UTIL: Phelps
I like!

by **Hermie13** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:06 pm

Tondo wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Don't get me wrong, I like guys like Gray and Barnes...but Lindor is a much better prospect. Top 8 on most "experts" boards.

As I said...I know about al Perts boards...and they've been wrong on guys like Lindor many, many times before...thats my point...the Indians, for all the reasons I layed out, where the worst possible team to gamble in the a top10 on a guy like that....experts like to overvalue certain positions because of scarcity, same happens in Fantasy Drafts and it's a stupid way of playing a draft imho...you just can't go wrong with BPA and Lindor wasn't a Top 10 pick because he was a top10 baseball talent...he was rated there because he is a SS...and I just don't see the upside with him (becoming much better than AVG MLB SS, who are dime a dozen) legitimizing NOT going BPA...I hope you know where IM coming from now

RedSox get Barnes, lol...rich getting richer

Wait what? On what planet are shortstops a dime a dozen? Hardest position player to fill on any team bar none. Only position in baseball tougher to fill is an Ace. And by basically your words, no ace was avaiable (just MOR guys).

and not trying to be a jerk here...but how were the Indians a team that couldn't gamble here? you keep saying you wanted a MOR guy...tribe is LOADED there. So we were actually one of the teams that could deviate from that.

by **Lloyd Christmas** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:06 pm

Gammons said the Cardinals think Kolten Wong is the next Carlos Baerga!!!!

by **A.Zajac** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:06 pm

Meyer also falling.

by **jellis** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:08 pm

I still dont see how you can draft Beedle with his high cost over Taylor.

Falling Meyer, Taylor, Mahtook

by **Hermie13** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:09 pm

A.Zajac wrote:Meyer also falling.

Barnes likely had something to do with that. Nats may be Meyer's landing spot

by **JP_Frost** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:09 pm

In case anyone doubts Lindor's athleticism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk3pGBYN ... re=related

There are quite a few videos of him on youtube, including the HR derby.

by **Lloyd Christmas** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:10 pm

and not trying to be a jerk here...but how were the Indians a team that couldn't gamble here? you keep saying you wanted a MOR guy...tribe is LOADED there. So we were actually one of the teams that could deviate from that.

Think they have more BOR guys than MOR. Masterson is the only one right now I think is middle. Would put White in there too when healthy

by **Tondo** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:11 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
jellis wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:OAK gets Gray...that's why they have a solid rotation almost every year....full of supposedly MOR guys btw...very good pick at 18...what's wrong with Barnes?

How many World Series have the A's won/been to in the last 20 years? zero?

Gray very likely is in their pen anyways.

Don't get me wrong, I like guys like Gray and Barnes...but Lindor is a much better prospect. Top 8 on most "experts" boards.

what world do you live in Oakland is not full of MOR guys Cahill and Anderson are two of the top ten arms in the AL, Gonzales has stepped up and is a 2, please cross check your statements

Yeah you beat me to that too. Anderson and Cahill would be our #1 if here....and on several teams

You guys don't have your irony-detector on, huh?

That's my point...where Cahill and Anderson considered FOR guys when they where picked in the 2nd round? You guys act like Pomeranz, White or a Jungmann can't become as good as those 2 but Lindor is sure lock to hit many doubles in the Majors, lol...so I ask you: who of us is taking a bigger leap here? That's been my point throughout this discusion

by **jellis** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:11 pm

Not sure I want to call Meyer falling, a lot of mocks had him going 26 to the nationals

by **Hermie13** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:12 pm

Tondo wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
jellis wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:OAK gets Gray...that's why they have a solid rotation almost every year....full of supposedly MOR guys btw...very good pick at 18...what's wrong with Barnes?

How many World Series have the A's won/been to in the last 20 years? zero?

Gray very likely is in their pen anyways.

Don't get me wrong, I like guys like Gray and Barnes...but Lindor is a much better prospect. Top 8 on most "experts" boards.

what world do you live in Oakland is not full of MOR guys Cahill and Anderson are two of the top ten arms in the AL, Gonzales has stepped up and is a 2, please cross check your statements

Yeah you beat me to that too. Anderson and Cahill would be our #1 if here....and on several teams

You guys don't have your irony-detector on, huh?

That's my point...where Cahill and Anderson considered FOR guys when they where picked in the 2nd round? You guys act like Pomeranz, White or a Jungmann can't become as good as those 2 but Lindor is sure lock to hit many doubles in the Majors, lol...so I ask you: who of us is taking a bigger leap here? That's been my point throughout this discusion

ha. Yes, guys in the 2nd round can become Aces. Just like HS SS's drafted top 10 can become hall of famers.

by **A.Zajac** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:12 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:Meyer also falling.

Barnes likely had something to do with that. Nats may be Meyer's landing spot

Meyer it is. Good call.

by **A.Zajac** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:13 pm

Two more Scott Boras negotiations for the Nats to handle. Overall, good night for them, though.

by **Hermie13** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:14 pm

jellis wrote:Not sure I want to call Meyer falling, a lot of mocks had him going 26 to the nationals

23 but you are right. Lots of talk of him to Boston and then the Nats.

by **jellis** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:14 pm

Tondo wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
jellis wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:OAK gets Gray...that's why they have a solid rotation almost every year....full of supposedly MOR guys btw...very good pick at 18...what's wrong with Barnes?

How many World Series have the A's won/been to in the last 20 years? zero?

Gray very likely is in their pen anyways.

Don't get me wrong, I like guys like Gray and Barnes...but Lindor is a much better prospect. Top 8 on most "experts" boards.

what world do you live in Oakland is not full of MOR guys Cahill and Anderson are two of the top ten arms in the AL, Gonzales has stepped up and is a 2, please cross check your statements

Yeah you beat me to that too. Anderson and Cahill would be our #1 if here....and on several teams

You guys don't have your irony-detector on, huh?

That's my point...where Cahill and Anderson considered FOR guys when they where picked in the 2nd round? You guys act like Pomeranz, White or a Jungmann can't become as good as those 2 but Lindor is sure lock to hit many doubles in the Majors, lol...so I ask you: who of us is taking a bigger leap here? That's been my point throughout this discusion

actually they were both considered to have FOR ability, they were both well thought of questions with them but yes both were considered possible FOR guys. So your point does not hold, and feels like back tracking

by **Hermie13** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:16 pm

Well there's Guerrieri. Great start for the Rays

by **jellis** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:20 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Well there's Guerrieri. Great start for the Rays

heck of s pick this late

by **entertheshoe** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:21 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
jellis wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:OAK gets Gray...that's why they have a solid rotation almost every year....full of supposedly MOR guys btw...very good pick at 18...what's wrong with Barnes?

How many World Series have the A's won/been to in the last 20 years? zero?

Gray very likely is in their pen anyways.

Don't get me wrong, I like guys like Gray and Barnes...but Lindor is a much better prospect. Top 8 on most "experts" boards.

what world do you live in Oakland is not full of MOR guys Cahill and Anderson are two of the top ten arms in the AL, Gonzales has stepped up and is a 2, please cross check your statements

Yeah you beat me to that too. Anderson and Cahill would be our #1 if here....and on several teams

You guys don't have your irony-detector on, huh?

That's my point...where Cahill and Anderson considered FOR guys when they where picked in the 2nd round? You guys act like Pomeranz, White or a Jungmann can't become as good as those 2 but Lindor is sure lock to hit many doubles in the Majors, lol...so I ask you: who of us is taking a bigger leap here? That's been my point throughout this discusion

ha. Yes, guys in the 2nd round can become Aces. Just like HS SS's drafted top 10 can become hall of famers.

If I had to name the top Shortstops over the last decade I think ARod (before the steroids moved him to 3rd), Jeter, Tulo, and Hanley. All of them were 1st rounders.

I'm not saying that Lindor is going to be as good as them, but generally if you want one of the best Shortstops, you draft them early.

by **Tondo** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:23 pm

Back tracking? lol...I've been consistent, re-read my posts

I guess it comes down to this: I don't buy the high ceiling on Lindor...just because he's yound doesn't get him a higher ceiling...speed and power are alreay tools in question at this stage, which is troubling to say the least...I just dont see it

I just don't get how Lindor has "upside" and a "high ceiling" but labled MOR guys like Jungmann don't have any left? As I said before: me thinks the "high ceiling" stuff is wishful thinking more often than not, esp. with HS bats...arms are easier to assess imho

Also, when I said AVG SS are dime a dozen Im talking SSs AVG stats and there are just a handful who clearly are better than that AVG on a yearly basis...the rest is a big pool of meh and pretty deep...so, you don't lose much to the rest of the league having an Alcides playing there and I just don't see much Top 5 SS tools in Lindor, esp. in his bat, sorry...guess that's the point of disagreement. Young doesnt equal high uspide...look at the player at hand

To make it even clearer...MOR SP floor is MUCH better than Alcides-like SS floor

by **Falcons115** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:27 pm

Idk why your still complaining about the pick, he's an Indian, and theres nothing any of us can do about it, we know you dont agree, but listening to you disagree just to disagree wont change anything, just my 2 cents.

by **A.Zajac** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:29 pm

Swihart to Red Sox. Not sure they sign him.

by **Hermie13** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:30 pm

Tondo wrote:To make it even clearer...MOR SP floor is MUCH better than Alcides-like SS floor

Fair enough...but a Rollins like ceiling is Way, way, way better at 8 than a Westbrook ceiling :drinks:

You draft on ceilings, not floors.

by **jellis** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:38 pm

Both Ohio teams going against type and taking a prep player

by **Hermie13** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:42 pm

Braves pick.....wow

by **criznit2009** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:48 pm

Missed the pick - was on my way home from work.... I would say I am dissapointed with this pick if any of Starling, Bauer or Archie were still around. They werent and we took the best available guy... IMO - sucks for us that all of our personal picks were already gone.....Just really unlucky

Now don't get me wrong I like the pick and he is 100% (or pretty dang close to it) the guy you take right there, based on who hasnt been taken. Just hope his bat can play at the ML level - someone said Alex Cora - and I see that as a real possibilty but think a defensive minded Jeter (as Hermie said) is a little more likely

Now for the Criznit bust factor 30%.

IMO Lindor has about 70% chance to be a regular/good contributor at the ML level and about 15% to be elite. Defensive wont be the issue, it will be all about getting that bat to play.

by **A.Zajac** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:52 pm

Bell, Norris, Mahtook all still available..

by **Hermie13** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:52 pm

Twins could really use michael...or Story

by **A.Zajac** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:54 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Twins could really use michael...or Story

Michael it is. Good fit.

by **A.Zajac** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:58 pm

Rays grab Mahtook. Man, the Rays are getting away with highway robbery.

by **Hermie13** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:59 pm

A.Zajac wrote:Rays grab Mahtook. Man, the Rays are getting away with highway robbery.

We'll see if they can sign everyone, but yeah so far so good.

Norris or a catcher would be a solid pick here

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