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Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby ClevBuck » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:56 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
ClevBuck wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
ClevBuck wrote:Pretty bad pick
Not much offensiv upside if any
I thought we did our Homework this year and wouldn't be afraid to spend in the 1st
So, who is there to spend on?


Anybody but Lindor
Yes.. that was the question.. someone to spend on other than lindor..so you don't know.. or don't want to share or.. what?


Its self explanitory unless your just flat out retarded(which o don't doubt)
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby Big League Choo » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:57 pm

Wow, the draft is bringing out some really negative posters!
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:57 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Lindor may be the "best SS" in the draft.. but he won't be commanding a huge signing bonus.. the Indians will be able to offer him slot value, and not a penny more.. With this, the later rounds should be a LOT more aggressive.. At least that's the plan and they're sticking to it..

Yes?


Don't think he'll be as easy as some are making it out to be, but dont' think you'll be spending more an arm and a leg
Huh?


I don't think if you offer him slot tomorrow, he signs. He's only 17 with a commit to a solid school. He had talk of going 2nd. He'll want to get paid, but won't be a terribly hard sign. I bet they go over slot on him though, just not a lot.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:57 pm

Tondo wrote:What makes it worse...we have to waste more $ for Lindor than a College arm, shortening our budget already...wow, talk about WORST case scenario happening. I'm pretty disappointed....once signed Lindor can join Wolters and they can hit .600 OPS in MV and do the same in LC next season...and they'll still be in Tony's Top10, dropping steadily, like EVERY "high ceiling" bat in our system did in the last 10 years
Mr Happy is looking for you Tondo... .600 OPS?.. I D K.. of course it's possible.. but he's clearly able to hit the baseball without the pitchers knocking the bat out of his hands...
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby entertheshoe » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:58 pm

Big League Choo wrote:Wow, the draft is bringing out some really negative posters!


Odds are that if someone is going to make a post, it is going to be to complain as opposed to say "yessss" or "hooray!"

The loudest voices doesn't mean they're the majority. Majority of people probably like this pick.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby jellis » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:59 pm

I feel this vitriol is based on lack of knowledge a guy who was a unanimous top ten player, sure the big names went early but we took a very good player. There is a huge difference between him and wolters one is top ten the other is a 3rd rounder. I liked Baez more as I really liked the bat, but Lindor could be very special, just because he is nto an awe guy does not make this a bad pick
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:59 pm

ClevBuck wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
ClevBuck wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
ClevBuck wrote:Pretty bad pick
Not much offensiv upside if any
I thought we did our Homework this year and wouldn't be afraid to spend in the 1st
So, who is there to spend on?


Anybody but Lindor
Yes.. that was the question.. someone to spend on other than lindor..so you don't know.. or don't want to share or.. what?


Its self explanitory unless your just flat out retarded(which o don't doubt)
No.. it's not self explanatory.. it's a legitimate question.. you claimed that homework was involved and that the Indians wouldn't be afraid to spend in the first.. Well. who is it that was available to draft that would require spending..

BTW.. the retard comment.. is boorish and unnecessary..
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:00 pm

Man, lots of debby downers around these parts. Yikes!

I really don't think Lindor's bat is as much of a problem as people put it out to be. He is a future top of the order hitter who can hit .290-.300 a year. Sure, he may not have power. But the game has changed. You don't need EVERY position to have a power hitter. I'm very satisfied.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby OhioBaseball » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:01 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
OhioBaseball wrote:Great, a middle infielder with no power or speed. Hope to God this guy isn't the second coming of Alex Cora.

Would not be overly disappointed if the Indians let this kid go to college and get the early pick next year.


He has speed and power. Not 80 power, but he's been compared to Rollins at this age by scouts. Won't hit for that much power but a 15 HR/20 SB guy is very realistic. Think Jeter, but with defense :drinks:


He runs OK. He's an average runner by major league standards, according to what the scouting bureau put out there. Power was graded out on MLB network as a 40, speed a 50. 15 HR's looks quite optimistic. Jeter has a lot bigger build than Lindor -- I don't see much power in this guy even at physical maturity -- he simply doesn't have that big of a frame.

Wouldn't be disappointed if he went to Florida State. Hope tomorrow's draft goes better!
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby Big League Choo » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:01 pm

Kevin Goldstein: Love this pick for Cleveland, so much better than the college arms still on the board. This kid is a natural SS and maybe the only one in the draft who projects as a plus defender there. He's also a switch-hitter with surprising pop, could see 10-15 HR annually down the road.

(From ESPN Chat)

Jason A. Churchill: Lindor was considered by Seattle and Arizona, and the Indians get a potential five-tool player that won't turn 18 until November. He's a switch hitter with pop -- he won the home run derby at the Aflac All-American game last year at ag 16 -- and scares opposing coaches from all angles. He's a wizard on defense and projects to not only stick at shortstop but thrive there. The Indians could be in a position to have to trade budding star Asdrubal Cabrera in a few years as he gets more expensive, and now Lindor is set as the successor. The question on Lindor is how real the power is, but scouts generally agree it's above-average relative to the position. Lindor isn't going to be a cheap sign so it appears the Indians are not looking for a slot signing with this pick, which should make Tribe fans happy.

(From ESPN Blog)
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:03 pm

A.Zajac wrote:Man, lots of debby downers around these parts. Yikes!

I really don't think Lindor's bat is as much of a problem as people put it out to be. He is a future top of the order hitter who can hit .290-.300 a year. Sure, he may not have power. But the game has changed. You don't need EVERY position to have a power hitter. I'm very satisfied.
Andrew.. I slotted him tenth as a non-lead off hitter.. he has the look of a speedster.. without the wheels.. His defense is solid to exceptional.. his contact ability is pretty damn good. He's a two year MiLB'er before his first chance at a cuppa coffee.. He does need to put on some muscle and mature. Time will tell.. three years?. .more?.. less? What are your thoughts?
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:04 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
OhioBaseball wrote:Great, a middle infielder with no power or speed. Hope to God this guy isn't the second coming of Alex Cora.

Would not be overly disappointed if the Indians let this kid go to college and get the early pick next year.


He has speed and power. Not 80 power, but he's been compared to Rollins at this age by scouts. Won't hit for that much power but a 15 HR/20 SB guy is very realistic. Think Jeter, but with defense :drinks:


He runs OK. He's an average runner by major league standards, according to what the scouting bureau put out there. Power was graded out on MLB network as a 40, speed a 50. 15 HR's looks quite optimistic. Jeter has a lot bigger build than Lindor -- I don't see much power in this guy even at physical maturity -- he simply doesn't have that big of a frame.

Wouldn't be disappointed if he went to Florida State. Hope tomorrow's draft goes better!


True on Jeter...then again, he's taller than Rollins with room to grow. So you never know. And hell, Valbuena put up 10 HRs. I don't think 15 HR power is a stretch at all with Lindor when you look at his swing. Great line drive stroke that will produce some HRs.

Even if he doesn't hit that many HRs, should be a gap guy and could be a 40 double guy.

Tribe continuing the trend...DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:05 pm

jellis wrote:I feel this vitriol is based on lack of knowledge a guy who was a unanimous top ten player, sure the big names went early but we took a very good player. There is a huge difference between him and wolters one is top ten the other is a 3rd rounder. I liked Baez more as I really liked the bat, but Lindor could be very special, just because he is nto an awe guy does not make this a bad pick


It's a not a bad pick by any means. He wasn't the top player on my board, but I certainly like him better than Gray or Jed Bradley. It's just a scary pick, because of his age and the number of slick fielding-lite hitting SS's in the minors and majors (a guy like Alcides Escobar comes to mind). That said, picking a HS pitcher is just as scary.

Does anyone have some good info on Lindor's pitch recognition?
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby danh8 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:05 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
OhioBaseball wrote:Great, a middle infielder with no power or speed. Hope to God this guy isn't the second coming of Alex Cora.

Would not be overly disappointed if the Indians let this kid go to college and get the early pick next year.


He has speed and power. Not 80 power, but he's been compared to Rollins at this age by scouts. Won't hit for that much power but a 15 HR/20 SB guy is very realistic. Think Jeter, but with defense :drinks:


He's built like Julio Franco was when he came to Indians at 19. Wire thin. But has the bat quickness you need to hit, and if he builds his body up could develop average+ power for position. I don't see how you can argue with this pick from the Indians standpoint.

I believe we locked in on finding the top middle infield prospect a while back, quite frankly. Unless something funky happened and a great pitcher dropped, or Rendon/Starling, we were basically deciding between Baez and Lindor and that's exactly how it played out for us.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby daingean » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:05 pm

Lindor would normally be a Jr. in HS. He played 16U WWBA last year. I will check on his games later. PG doesn't actually measure guys, they just take the player's word on it. But he has been 5'11" since 2009 but added 15 pounds since 2010. This makes me think he is done growing upward but adding weight.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:06 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:Man, lots of debby downers around these parts. Yikes!

I really don't think Lindor's bat is as much of a problem as people put it out to be. He is a future top of the order hitter who can hit .290-.300 a year. Sure, he may not have power. But the game has changed. You don't need EVERY position to have a power hitter. I'm very satisfied.
Andrew.. I slotted him tenth as a non-lead off hitter.. he has the look of a speedster.. without the wheels.. His defense is solid to exceptional.. his contact ability is pretty damn good. He's a two year MiLB'er before his first chance at a cuppa coffee.. He does need to put on some muscle and mature. Time will tell.. three years?. .more?.. less? What are your thoughts?


He needs to fill out, that's for sure. But, I don't project him to move through the ranks real quick. Four years is what I'd predict right now. Think three years might be a little optimistic. I love him defensively. Like I said, offensively, I don't worry about him. I think as he fills out, the offense will come.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby Tondo » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:06 pm

Sorry for the negativity folks, but this was pretty much THE worst case pick for me. My :bad: pick as I posted earlier today...so this brings out the worst of me. I know my stuff, I know this draft...and I have a pretty bad feeling for this pick....he's so far away, Idk if he could handle MV and the plethora of mid round College arms for the next 2 years, limiting him to AZL probably and a lot of extended....

Historically deep draft, many "sure things"...and we go HS SS, who already projects to be AVG in many categories, I honestly don't even the high ceiling with him...wow, just wow

Sign 17yo SSs from the LAtin pool every year and you'll eventually hit on an Asdrubal...that's where you get decent SS anyway...not at 8 in the deepest draft ever....if we had 1 or 2 more top60 picks I would have understood...but this is just stupid...on so many levels....I honestly can't find many positives here....he better pans out cause the guys before him have a pretty good shot at reaching the Bigs

Enjoy if you like the pick....sure will lead to some convo with me the next years....I hope this kid proves me wrong and I'll happily eat my words but I'm bummed right now...see you tomorrow, maybe we can make up for this
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:09 pm

Tondo wrote:Sorry for the negativity folks, but this was pretty much THE worst case pick for me. My :bad: pick as I posted earlier today...so this brings out the worst of me. I know my stuff, I know this draft...and I have a pretty bad feeling for this pick....he's so far away, Idk if he could handle MV and the plethora of mid round College arms for the next 2 years, limiting him to AZL probably and a lot of extended....

Historically deep draft, many "sure things"...and we go HS SS, who already projects to be AVG in many categories, I honestly don't even the high ceiling with him...wow, just wow

Sign 17yo SSs from the LAtin pool every year and you'll eventually hit on an Asdrubal...that's where you get decent SS anyway...not at 8 in the deepest draft ever....if we had 1 or 2 more top60 picks I would have understood...but this is just stupid...on so many levels....I honestly can't find many positives here....he better pans out cause the guys before him have a pretty good shot at reaching the Bigs

Enjoy if you like the pick....sure will lead to some convo with me the next years....I hope this kid proves me wrong and I'll happily eat my words but I'm bummed right now...see you tomorrow, maybe we can make up for this



My big thing here is what "sure thing" was left? :dunno:
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby jellis » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:11 pm

btw love the brewers pick
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby entertheshoe » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:11 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:Man, lots of debby downers around these parts. Yikes!

I really don't think Lindor's bat is as much of a problem as people put it out to be. He is a future top of the order hitter who can hit .290-.300 a year. Sure, he may not have power. But the game has changed. You don't need EVERY position to have a power hitter. I'm very satisfied.
Andrew.. I slotted him tenth as a non-lead off hitter.. he has the look of a speedster.. without the wheels.. His defense is solid to exceptional.. his contact ability is pretty damn good. He's a two year MiLB'er before his first chance at a cuppa coffee.. He does need to put on some muscle and mature. Time will tell.. three years?. .more?.. less? What are your thoughts?


He needs to fill out, that's for sure. But, I don't project him to move through the ranks real quick. Four years is what I'd predict right now. Think three years might be a little optimistic. I love him defensively. Like I said, offensively, I don't worry about him. I think as he fills out, the offense will come.


That's a pretty accurate prediction.

One thing that I like is that his defense is not going to hold him back development wise like it has with Chiz, Kipnis, Phelps etc. He will progress through the system as fast as his work at the plate takes him. He is also a team leader and an infectious personality according to what I've read.

If I had to guess I'd say:
Low ceiling - Omar Visquel
High ceiling - Jimmy Rollins
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby jellis » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:13 pm

pitching deep draft and 7 of the first 13 are bats, very itneresting
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby danh8 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:16 pm

entertheshoe wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:Man, lots of debby downers around these parts. Yikes!

I really don't think Lindor's bat is as much of a problem as people put it out to be. He is a future top of the order hitter who can hit .290-.300 a year. Sure, he may not have power. But the game has changed. You don't need EVERY position to have a power hitter. I'm very satisfied.
Andrew.. I slotted him tenth as a non-lead off hitter.. he has the look of a speedster.. without the wheels.. His defense is solid to exceptional.. his contact ability is pretty damn good. He's a two year MiLB'er before his first chance at a cuppa coffee.. He does need to put on some muscle and mature. Time will tell.. three years?. .more?.. less? What are your thoughts?


He needs to fill out, that's for sure. But, I don't project him to move through the ranks real quick. Four years is what I'd predict right now. Think three years might be a little optimistic. I love him defensively. Like I said, offensively, I don't worry about him. I think as he fills out, the offense will come.


That's a pretty accurate prediction.

One thing that I like is that his defense is not going to hold him back development wise like it has with Chiz, Kipnis, Phelps etc. He will progress through the system as fast as his work at the plate takes him. He is also a team leader and an infectious personality according to what I've read.

If I had to guess I'd say:
Low ceiling - Omar Visquel
High ceiling - Jimmy Rollins



Umm, if low ceiling is hall of fame caliber SS, I'm all in !

No, I know what you meant ...in play style.... and I'll agree. Defense first SS, with some projection with the bat possibly. Although, only two gloves have ever seen the field in the Vizquel league, in the history of the game..
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:16 pm

jellis wrote:pitching deep draft and 7 of the first 13 are bats, very itneresting


make that 8 of 14

intersting too considering this is the first time ever 4 pitchers went 1-4.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:16 pm

entertheshoe wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:Man, lots of debby downers around these parts. Yikes!

I really don't think Lindor's bat is as much of a problem as people put it out to be. He is a future top of the order hitter who can hit .290-.300 a year. Sure, he may not have power. But the game has changed. You don't need EVERY position to have a power hitter. I'm very satisfied.
Andrew.. I slotted him tenth as a non-lead off hitter.. he has the look of a speedster.. without the wheels.. His defense is solid to exceptional.. his contact ability is pretty damn good. He's a two year MiLB'er before his first chance at a cuppa coffee.. He does need to put on some muscle and mature. Time will tell.. three years?. .more?.. less? What are your thoughts?


He needs to fill out, that's for sure. But, I don't project him to move through the ranks real quick. Four years is what I'd predict right now. Think three years might be a little optimistic. I love him defensively. Like I said, offensively, I don't worry about him. I think as he fills out, the offense will come.


That's a pretty accurate prediction.

One thing that I like is that his defense is not going to hold him back development wise like it has with Chiz, Kipnis, Phelps etc. He will progress through the system as fast as his work at the plate takes him. He is also a team leader and an infectious personality according to what I've read.

If I had to guess I'd say:
Low ceiling - Omar Visquel
High ceiling - Jimmy Rollins


I agree with you as far as defense holding him back. It won't. He's a very high character guy. No concerns there either. Best case scenario is Rollins, I agree.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:18 pm

One thing I've read about his defense is that as he fills out to compensate offensively, he might lose a step or two in the field. That's nitpicking though, as his glove is considered an easy plus, but it's something to keep in mind.

Btw, if he had 30HR potential, he'd be gone with the first 3 picks. Besides, outside of Baez, he's at the top of the draft board for most of us, so maybe we shouldn't complain untill we see what the kid can do in pro ball.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:18 pm

Been numerous reports too about how great Lindor's character/leadership is...which is something consdering he's only 17 still. That's where I mostly get my Jeter comp. I can't stand Jeter, but the guy has been a solid leader for that Yanks club for a number of years.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:19 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Been numerous reports too about how great Lindor's character/leadership is...which is something consdering he's only 17 still. That's where I mostly get my Jeter comp. I can't stand Jeter, but the guy has been a solid leader for that Yanks club for a number of years.


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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:20 pm

JP_Frost wrote:One thing I've read about his defense is that as he fills out to compensate offensively, he might lose a step or two in the field. That's nitpicking though, as his glove is considered an easy plus, but it's something to keep in mind.

Btw, if he had 30HR potential, he'd be gone with the first 3 picks. Besides, outside of Baez, he's at the top of the draft board for most of us, so maybe we shouldn't complain untill we see what the kid can do in pro ball.


meh, only partially. Saying he has the potential for that is one thing...saying he has 'good' potential to be a 30 HR guy is another.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:21 pm

Nice grab by the Marlins
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:23 pm

Hearing Baez will become a 3B.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:23 pm

A.Zajac wrote:Hearing Baez will become a 3B.


Makes some sense. They have a young SS and with all that Wright trade talk, he could be unblocked
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby Tondo » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:24 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:Sorry for the negativity folks, but this was pretty much THE worst case pick for me. My :bad: pick as I posted earlier today...so this brings out the worst of me. I know my stuff, I know this draft...and I have a pretty bad feeling for this pick....he's so far away, Idk if he could handle MV and the plethora of mid round College arms for the next 2 years, limiting him to AZL probably and a lot of extended....

Historically deep draft, many "sure things"...and we go HS SS, who already projects to be AVG in many categories, I honestly don't even the high ceiling with him...wow, just wow

Sign 17yo SSs from the LAtin pool every year and you'll eventually hit on an Asdrubal...that's where you get decent SS anyway...not at 8 in the deepest draft ever....if we had 1 or 2 more top60 picks I would have understood...but this is just stupid...on so many levels....I honestly can't find many positives here....he better pans out cause the guys before him have a pretty good shot at reaching the Bigs

Enjoy if you like the pick....sure will lead to some convo with me the next years....I hope this kid proves me wrong and I'll happily eat my words but I'm bummed right now...see you tomorrow, maybe we can make up for this



My big thing here is what "sure thing" was left? :dunno:


I'd rather have a sure MOR with upside for more like Jungmann or Barnes or even Alex White 2.0 in Gray than a slick fielding SS, who projects as the 100th table setter in our system (Henry, Fedroff, Carrera...we are full of 1,2 and 8,9 hitters, great!) and who already gets bareyl above AVG grades for power and speed (guy is 17, think he gets faster? by the time he reaches the Majors, he most probably will lose some of that 50 speed)...so what's left? a 17yo high risk, high cost 2? 3? tooler YAY...oh I forgot, he has "uspide" cause nobody knows if the power and speed plays...it's draft day (where fantasy projection run amok) and there are already "reservations"...so much for that.

But...ending on a positive note...looking at those other picks I think the other GMs go the outsmart route too...they risk on bats early because the arms are so deep, they figure to get 1 or 2 later...problem is, you might have 3 mddling talents instead of one sure good one....that's stupid, just take the BPA and dont try playing the draft...as I said, I understand a team with multiple top picks doing this...not us, with minimum picks and being totally dependent on drafts as small market team....ah, there's not much positive out of this, really....sorry for being a downer
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:27 pm

Tondo wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:Sorry for the negativity folks, but this was pretty much THE worst case pick for me. My :bad: pick as I posted earlier today...so this brings out the worst of me. I know my stuff, I know this draft...and I have a pretty bad feeling for this pick....he's so far away, Idk if he could handle MV and the plethora of mid round College arms for the next 2 years, limiting him to AZL probably and a lot of extended....

Historically deep draft, many "sure things"...and we go HS SS, who already projects to be AVG in many categories, I honestly don't even the high ceiling with him...wow, just wow

Sign 17yo SSs from the LAtin pool every year and you'll eventually hit on an Asdrubal...that's where you get decent SS anyway...not at 8 in the deepest draft ever....if we had 1 or 2 more top60 picks I would have understood...but this is just stupid...on so many levels....I honestly can't find many positives here....he better pans out cause the guys before him have a pretty good shot at reaching the Bigs

Enjoy if you like the pick....sure will lead to some convo with me the next years....I hope this kid proves me wrong and I'll happily eat my words but I'm bummed right now...see you tomorrow, maybe we can make up for this



My big thing here is what "sure thing" was left? :dunno:


I'd rather have a sure MOR with upside for more like Jungmann or Barnes or even Alex White 2.0 in Gray than a slick fielding SS, who projects as the 100th table setter in our system (Henry, Fedroff, Carrera...we are full of 1,2 and 8,9 hitters, great!) and who already gets bareyl above AVG grades for power and speed (guy is 17, think he gets faster? by the time he reaches the Majors, he most probably will lose some of that 50 speed)...so what's left? a 17yo high risk, high cost 2? 3? tooler YAY...oh I forgot, he has "uspide" cause nobody knows if the power and speed plays...it's draft day (where fantasy projection run amok) and there are already "reservations"...so much for that.

But...ending on a positive note...looking at those other picks I think the other GMs go the outsmart route too...they risk on bats early because the arms are so deep, they figure to get 1 or 2 later...problem is, you might have 3 mddling talents instead of one sure good one....that's stupid, just take the BPA and dont try playing the draft...as I said, I understand a team with multiple top picks doing this...not us, with minimum picks and being totally dependent on drafts as small market team....ah, there's not much positive out of this, really....sorry for being a downer


Entitled to your opinion...but how can you use the arguement that we have a ton of 1/2, 8/9 guys but then go on to say you want a MOR guy? We are bursting at the seams with MOR guys in this system. That's the last thing we needed.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby jellis » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:28 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:Hearing Baez will become a 3B.


Makes some sense. They have a young SS and with all that Wright trade talk, he could be unblocked



Nothing to do with castro, he is too big for SS was going to have to move off to 3B or OF
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:28 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:Sorry for the negativity folks, but this was pretty much THE worst case pick for me. My :bad: pick as I posted earlier today...so this brings out the worst of me. I know my stuff, I know this draft...and I have a pretty bad feeling for this pick....he's so far away, Idk if he could handle MV and the plethora of mid round College arms for the next 2 years, limiting him to AZL probably and a lot of extended....

Historically deep draft, many "sure things"...and we go HS SS, who already projects to be AVG in many categories, I honestly don't even the high ceiling with him...wow, just wow

Sign 17yo SSs from the LAtin pool every year and you'll eventually hit on an Asdrubal...that's where you get decent SS anyway...not at 8 in the deepest draft ever....if we had 1 or 2 more top60 picks I would have understood...but this is just stupid...on so many levels....I honestly can't find many positives here....he better pans out cause the guys before him have a pretty good shot at reaching the Bigs

Enjoy if you like the pick....sure will lead to some convo with me the next years....I hope this kid proves me wrong and I'll happily eat my words but I'm bummed right now...see you tomorrow, maybe we can make up for this



My big thing here is what "sure thing" was left? :dunno:


I'd rather have a sure MOR with upside for more like Jungmann or Barnes or even Alex White 2.0 in Gray than a slick fielding SS, who projects as the 100th table setter in our system (Henry, Fedroff, Carrera...we are full of 1,2 and 8,9 hitters, great!) and who already gets bareyl above AVG grades for power and speed (guy is 17, think he gets faster? by the time he reaches the Majors, he most probably will lose some of that 50 speed)...so what's left? a 17yo high risk, high cost 2? 3? tooler YAY...oh I forgot, he has "uspide" cause nobody knows if the power and speed plays...it's draft day (where fantasy projection run amok) and there are already "reservations"...so much for that.

But...ending on a positive note...looking at those other picks I think the other GMs go the outsmart route too...they risk on bats early because the arms are so deep, they figure to get 1 or 2 later...problem is, you might have 3 mddling talents instead of one sure good one....that's stupid, just take the BPA and dont try playing the draft...as I said, I understand a team with multiple top picks doing this...not us, with minimum picks and being totally dependent on drafts as small market team....ah, there's not much positive out of this, really....sorry for being a downer


Entitled to your opinion...but how can you use the arguement that we have a ton of 1/2, 8/9 guys but then go on to say you want a MOR guy? We are bursting at the seams with MOR guys in this system. That's the last thing we needed.


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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:28 pm

jellis wrote:I feel this vitriol is based on lack of knowledge a guy who was a unanimous top ten player, sure the big names went early but we took a very good player. There is a huge difference between him and wolters one is top ten the other is a 3rd rounder. I liked Baez more as I really liked the bat, but Lindor could be very special, just because he is nto an awe guy does not make this a bad pick


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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:29 pm

Brewers with a nice haul: Jungmann and Jed Bradley.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:32 pm

jellis wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:Hearing Baez will become a 3B.


Makes some sense. They have a young SS and with all that Wright trade talk, he could be unblocked



Nothing to do with castro, he is too big for SS was going to have to move off to 3B or OF


meh, he's what 6'1 and 205? That's not too big for SS.

and since no one caught me, Wright? doh, meant Ramirez being gone. :s_crazy
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:33 pm

JP_Frost wrote:Brewers with a nice haul: Jungmann and Jed Bradley.


Both names we were connected to. Good for them.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:34 pm

ClevBuck wrote:Its self explanitory unless your just flat out retarded(which o don't doubt)


Enough. Can you please comment without insulting remarks? Thats the second or third time in this thread.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby Tondo » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:36 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:Sorry for the negativity folks, but this was pretty much THE worst case pick for me. My :bad: pick as I posted earlier today...so this brings out the worst of me. I know my stuff, I know this draft...and I have a pretty bad feeling for this pick....he's so far away, Idk if he could handle MV and the plethora of mid round College arms for the next 2 years, limiting him to AZL probably and a lot of extended....

Historically deep draft, many "sure things"...and we go HS SS, who already projects to be AVG in many categories, I honestly don't even the high ceiling with him...wow, just wow

Sign 17yo SSs from the LAtin pool every year and you'll eventually hit on an Asdrubal...that's where you get decent SS anyway...not at 8 in the deepest draft ever....if we had 1 or 2 more top60 picks I would have understood...but this is just stupid...on so many levels....I honestly can't find many positives here....he better pans out cause the guys before him have a pretty good shot at reaching the Bigs

Enjoy if you like the pick....sure will lead to some convo with me the next years....I hope this kid proves me wrong and I'll happily eat my words but I'm bummed right now...see you tomorrow, maybe we can make up for this



My big thing here is what "sure thing" was left? :dunno:


I'd rather have a sure MOR with upside for more like Jungmann or Barnes or even Alex White 2.0 in Gray than a slick fielding SS, who projects as the 100th table setter in our system (Henry, Fedroff, Carrera...we are full of 1,2 and 8,9 hitters, great!) and who already gets bareyl above AVG grades for power and speed (guy is 17, think he gets faster? by the time he reaches the Majors, he most probably will lose some of that 50 speed)...so what's left? a 17yo high risk, high cost 2? 3? tooler YAY...oh I forgot, he has "uspide" cause nobody knows if the power and speed plays...it's draft day (where fantasy projection run amok) and there are already "reservations"...so much for that.

But...ending on a positive note...looking at those other picks I think the other GMs go the outsmart route too...they risk on bats early because the arms are so deep, they figure to get 1 or 2 later...problem is, you might have 3 mddling talents instead of one sure good one....that's stupid, just take the BPA and dont try playing the draft...as I said, I understand a team with multiple top picks doing this...not us, with minimum picks and being totally dependent on drafts as small market team....ah, there's not much positive out of this, really....sorry for being a downer


Entitled to your opinion...but how can you use the arguement that we have a ton of 1/2, 8/9 guys but then go on to say you want a MOR guy? We are bursting at the seams with MOR guys in this system. That's the last thing we needed.


You can win a WS with 5 good MORs, since you level your missing ace with above AVG 4th/5th starter...I also consider Pomeranz as a No2, being a FOR/MOR tweener so to say, along with White, who I project a "better" MOR (2/3 tweener), a Jungmann, Carrasco and Tomlin...that could have come true in 2-3 years...along with some other guys we have less knowledge about (McAllister, Soto, Gomez etc)

otoh you won't win shit with 9 .375OBP bats that hit singles 70%+ of their hits

btw, in case it was directed at me: I KNOW Lindor was a consensus Top10 guy, I just disagreed and I said why on here days ago...I know this draft inside out and deeper than most Nerds on here. Here's hoping to a good day 2

btw 2: some stupid picks...Barnes and Gray sliding big time, Guerrieri too...signability concerns with him?
Last edited by Tondo on Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:38 pm

Reed for the Dodgers? Ouch. Hate to be a Dodgers fan.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby jellis » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:39 pm

Tondo wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:Sorry for the negativity folks, but this was pretty much THE worst case pick for me. My :bad: pick as I posted earlier today...so this brings out the worst of me. I know my stuff, I know this draft...and I have a pretty bad feeling for this pick....he's so far away, Idk if he could handle MV and the plethora of mid round College arms for the next 2 years, limiting him to AZL probably and a lot of extended....

Historically deep draft, many "sure things"...and we go HS SS, who already projects to be AVG in many categories, I honestly don't even the high ceiling with him...wow, just wow

Sign 17yo SSs from the LAtin pool every year and you'll eventually hit on an Asdrubal...that's where you get decent SS anyway...not at 8 in the deepest draft ever....if we had 1 or 2 more top60 picks I would have understood...but this is just stupid...on so many levels....I honestly can't find many positives here....he better pans out cause the guys before him have a pretty good shot at reaching the Bigs

Enjoy if you like the pick....sure will lead to some convo with me the next years....I hope this kid proves me wrong and I'll happily eat my words but I'm bummed right now...see you tomorrow, maybe we can make up for this



My big thing here is what "sure thing" was left? :dunno:


I'd rather have a sure MOR with upside for more like Jungmann or Barnes or even Alex White 2.0 in Gray than a slick fielding SS, who projects as the 100th table setter in our system (Henry, Fedroff, Carrera...we are full of 1,2 and 8,9 hitters, great!) and who already gets bareyl above AVG grades for power and speed (guy is 17, think he gets faster? by the time he reaches the Majors, he most probably will lose some of that 50 speed)...so what's left? a 17yo high risk, high cost 2? 3? tooler YAY...oh I forgot, he has "uspide" cause nobody knows if the power and speed plays...it's draft day (where fantasy projection run amok) and there are already "reservations"...so much for that.

But...ending on a positive note...looking at those other picks I think the other GMs go the outsmart route too...they risk on bats early because the arms are so deep, they figure to get 1 or 2 later...problem is, you might have 3 mddling talents instead of one sure good one....that's stupid, just take the BPA and dont try playing the draft...as I said, I understand a team with multiple top picks doing this...not us, with minimum picks and being totally dependent on drafts as small market team....ah, there's not much positive out of this, really....sorry for being a downer


Entitled to your opinion...but how can you use the arguement that we have a ton of 1/2, 8/9 guys but then go on to say you want a MOR guy? We are bursting at the seams with MOR guys in this system. That's the last thing we needed.


You can win a WS with 5 good MORs, since you level your missing ace with above AVG 4th/5th starter...I also consider Pomeranz as a No2, being a FOR/MOR tweener so to say, along with White, who I project a "better" MOR (2/3 tweener), a Jungmann, Carrasco and Tomlin...that could have come true in 2-3 years...along with some other guys we have less knowledge about (McAllister, Soto, Gomez etc)

otoh you won't win shit with 9 .375OBP bats that hit singles 70%+ of their hits


you might not but Lindor is not that either, he is going to be in the top ten in doubles every year
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby jellis » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:40 pm

Angels just drafted a DH
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:40 pm

Taylor Guerrieri, Sonny Gray, Matt Barnes all falling.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:42 pm

A.Zajac wrote:Reed for the Dodgers? Ouch. Hate to be a Dodgers fan.


I like Reed a lot...but yeah top half of the first round? yuck
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby entertheshoe » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:43 pm

Tondo wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:Sorry for the negativity folks, but this was pretty much THE worst case pick for me. My :bad: pick as I posted earlier today...so this brings out the worst of me. I know my stuff, I know this draft...and I have a pretty bad feeling for this pick....he's so far away, Idk if he could handle MV and the plethora of mid round College arms for the next 2 years, limiting him to AZL probably and a lot of extended....

Historically deep draft, many "sure things"...and we go HS SS, who already projects to be AVG in many categories, I honestly don't even the high ceiling with him...wow, just wow

Sign 17yo SSs from the LAtin pool every year and you'll eventually hit on an Asdrubal...that's where you get decent SS anyway...not at 8 in the deepest draft ever....if we had 1 or 2 more top60 picks I would have understood...but this is just stupid...on so many levels....I honestly can't find many positives here....he better pans out cause the guys before him have a pretty good shot at reaching the Bigs

Enjoy if you like the pick....sure will lead to some convo with me the next years....I hope this kid proves me wrong and I'll happily eat my words but I'm bummed right now...see you tomorrow, maybe we can make up for this



My big thing here is what "sure thing" was left? :dunno:


I'd rather have a sure MOR with upside for more like Jungmann or Barnes or even Alex White 2.0 in Gray than a slick fielding SS, who projects as the 100th table setter in our system (Henry, Fedroff, Carrera...we are full of 1,2 and 8,9 hitters, great!) and who already gets bareyl above AVG grades for power and speed (guy is 17, think he gets faster? by the time he reaches the Majors, he most probably will lose some of that 50 speed)...so what's left? a 17yo high risk, high cost 2? 3? tooler YAY...oh I forgot, he has "uspide" cause nobody knows if the power and speed plays...it's draft day (where fantasy projection run amok) and there are already "reservations"...so much for that.

But...ending on a positive note...looking at those other picks I think the other GMs go the outsmart route too...they risk on bats early because the arms are so deep, they figure to get 1 or 2 later...problem is, you might have 3 mddling talents instead of one sure good one....that's stupid, just take the BPA and dont try playing the draft...as I said, I understand a team with multiple top picks doing this...not us, with minimum picks and being totally dependent on drafts as small market team....ah, there's not much positive out of this, really....sorry for being a downer


Entitled to your opinion...but how can you use the arguement that we have a ton of 1/2, 8/9 guys but then go on to say you want a MOR guy? We are bursting at the seams with MOR guys in this system. That's the last thing we needed.


You can win a WS with 5 good MORs, since you level your missing ace with above AVG 4th/5th starter...I also consider Pomeranz as a No2, being a FOR/MOR tweener so to say, along with White, who I project a "better" MOR (2/3 tweener), a Jungmann, Carrasco and Tomlin...that could have come true in 2-3 years...along with some other guys we have less knowledge about (McAllister, Soto, Gomez etc)

otoh you won't win shit with 9 .375OBP bats that hit singles 70%+ of their hits


How does your 4th/5th starter affect a World Series run when most teams use a 4 man and occasionally a 3 man rotation in the playoffs?

The Phillies started the arms race and it's not going to stop. Philly now has Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, and Hamels so you will see other teams having a potential number 1 starter as their 4th starter. You really want to throw Tomlin against any of those 4 and expect a World Series?
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:44 pm

A.Zajac wrote:Taylor Guerrieri, Sonny Gray, Matt Barnes all falling.


This year's AJ Cole? :dunno:
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby entertheshoe » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:45 pm

BTW little late, but I love the Marlins pick of Jose Fernandez. Florida guy so it should make him an easier sign. Plus he's Cuban so he will become a fan favorite. A Cuban starting pitcher for the Florida Marlins, that one sounds familiar.
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Re: Official 2011 MLB Draft thread

Postby jellis » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:45 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:Taylor Guerrieri, Sonny Gray, Matt Barnes all falling.


This year's AJ Cole? :dunno:


I think Norris is more likely this years Cole, I bet Guerriere goes in the to TB, STL, BOS
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