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Rule 5 Draft

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

Re: Rule 5 Draft

Postby carnegie44115 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:22 am

Consigliere wrote:
MadThinker88 wrote:More than likely, Tony sent out a text/ put out a call to 'his' guys and he is relaying the answers of those that have gotten back to him.


That about answers it. I ask, they reply, I forward to you guys. I'm simply the messenger.

The thing with Valbuena is he impressed a lot of people with the way he shored up his approach at the plate to draw more walks and strikeout less but at the same time kept up with all his other numbers and actually improved there as well. The most impressive thing is how he has dedicated himself to improving on defense. He has gone from a fringe average defender a season or two ago to now an above average guy on defense at 2B.

By the way, I did not ask these other scouts about Hodges, but one of them I have talked about him just last week and he says should stay at 3B and he believes he will be an average 3B there.


Well if Hodges does indeed does stay at third, it will sure be an interesting off-season for 3B and really every position except CF, SS and C, with the influx of players at AAA this upcoming year and the guys that will be ready for AAA in 2010. I predict mega trades come next off-season.
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Re: Rule 5 Draft

Postby Duane Kuiper » Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:48 pm

Consigliere wrote:The most impressive thing is how he has dedicated himself to improving on defense. He has gone from a fringe average defender a season or two ago to now an above average guy on defense at 2B.
That's not what Shapiro said.

"We like his bat quite a bit," Shapiro said. "We feel he has a chance to be an average defender and an average runner."
http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/p ... s_pagelink

I don't think that Shapiro would under rate a player.
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Re: Rule 5 Draft

Postby jellis » Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:06 pm

Duane Kuiper wrote:
Consigliere wrote:The most impressive thing is how he has dedicated himself to improving on defense. He has gone from a fringe average defender a season or two ago to now an above average guy on defense at 2B.
That's not what Shapiro said.

"We like his bat quite a bit," Shapiro said. "We feel he has a chance to be an average defender and an average runner."
http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/p ... s_pagelink

I don't think that Shapiro would under rate a player.



most other sources call him above average Shapiro might be tempering peoples reactions with that statement
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Re: Rule 5 Draft

Postby indianinkslinger » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:59 pm

I think it is Shapiro's way of telling the fans that he does not view Valbuena as ML ready offensively or defensively. Why risk overrating the player and increase the pressure on the player to perform better than expectations. Seems pragmatic to me.
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Re: Rule 5 Draft

Postby dnosco » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:05 am

I would be willing to give you that he is going to be an average ML secondbaseman. Above average is another story. that mean probably in the top 40% of ML secondbasemen or above. I am thinking that above average is, at this point, just a dream for the kid. Shapiro's comments were probably based on his projection, it doesn't mean Valbuena has to work extra hard or improve a great deal to be average, he just has to play at the level he has and improve as one does as he gains experience.

But to say that he is or will be above-average? Yeah, when you look at Luis Castillo and Fernando Vina, for example, those guys were second base-only guys even in the minors. However, guys like Pokey Reese, Ryne Sandberg, Brandon Phillips, etc. were minor league SS who became ML secondbaseman and Gold Glovers. So, it could happen that he would be above average but that would be IF he really is extraordinary in terms of how improves compared to the average guy. It just doesn't make sense to me.
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Re: Rule 5 Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:16 am

Valbuena has played SS in the minors though and even a game in the majors (also played a handful of games at 3B in the minors)....


Judging by what I've read about the did, he sounds like he could be just like Ronnie Belliard. Is Ronnie above average? eh, for those couple years with Cleveland he was, but overall just average. But I'd definately take Ronnie on this team now....
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Re: Rule 5 Draft

Postby dnosco » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:30 pm

A couple of games at SS doesn't make you a SS. He is as pure a secondbaseman as comes up through the minors, IMHO.

Agreed with the Belliard comment but that is the guy's upside and Ronnie Belliard is not so good at anything that it keeps him from begging for a job essentially every year. While it would be great if Valbuena ended up as good as Belliard that, in no way, would make Valbuena a plus guy to have as a starter on your team. It's like Carroll having speed. Compared to Rivas and others we have had on this team, yeah, Carroll has speed. Doesn't mean he has league average speed or plus speed, just that he has speed compared to what he is being compared to.
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Re: Rule 5 Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:07 pm

dnosco wrote:A couple of games at SS doesn't make you a SS. He is as pure a secondbaseman as comes up through the minors, IMHO.

Agreed with the Belliard comment but that is the guy's upside and Ronnie Belliard is not so good at anything that it keeps him from begging for a job essentially every year. While it would be great if Valbuena ended up as good as Belliard that, in no way, would make Valbuena a plus guy to have as a starter on your team. It's like Carroll having speed. Compared to Rivas and others we have had on this team, yeah, Carroll has speed. Doesn't mean he has league average speed or plus speed, just that he has speed compared to what he is being compared to.


I agree....but he could still play there some in a pinch. He does have a decent arm from what I've read so the left side could be in play. Going from SS to 2B is a lot easier but Cabrera did it on the fly in 2007 (had a couple games there from his Mariners days).


Belliard is underrated IMO. He had some good years in Cleveland (especially for a 2B), even was an All-Star. Still puts up Very solid numbers. Since 2003 he's only once not had an OPS of at least .750. For a 2B that's not too shabby. I'd take that from Valbuena or any other 2B on our team for the next couple years.

Valbuena already has advanced plate discipline. If he can show a bit of pop and play average D, he can easily turn into an average to above average 2B. Does have 5 HRs in winter ball, which I know doesn't mean much (could be a really short fence too)....but still nice to see. You only need about 10-12 HRs from the 2B spot.

I do also realize he could turn into a guy that never advances beyond being a utility guy....but from what I've seen and read....I'm leaning towards a starter and possibly soon.....needs to have a solid spring though....


I also wonder if the Tribe may try and 'force' him into SS this year. As it stand now we have two 2B at Columbus in Barfield and Valbuena. Does one of them make the ML club out of ST? maybe...but there's a very good chacne neither does. do we trade one of them before the season starts? Maybe....but easily could see both in AAA to start the year.

Does Barfield DH or does Valbuena play some SS with Barfield at 2B? I'd like to see a bit of the latter next year.....but that's just me....
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