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2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:25 pm

toledobuck wrote:Reyes or De La could get the call at COL. The Tribe may elect to bring up Huff and if that does not happen they could bring up an early call for Alex White. It would be understood that White would be sent down asap upon the return to health of Carrasco/Talbot so his service clock does not get extended too much.


Well reports are positive on Carrasco. That said, would be pretty dumb/pointless to call up White for a couple of starts to send down. While we all hope he will perform and options will never become an issue...but no point in wasting one for no good reason.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Edible14 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:45 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Wondering if Carrasco being hurt could open a spot in C-Bus for Reyes here soon. Indians.com is reporting he should be up to 5 innings here shortly while throwing in Arizona.


Was wondering the same thing. The Indians certainly aren't hurting for options to fill-in at AAA/AA.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby homerawayfromhome » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:11 pm

Interesting that Reyes is taking so long or they are being cautious with him in bringing him back from TJ surgery with ulnar nerve transposition. Not sure if relocating the nerve in the forearm creates a longer rehab but could be part of it. Reyes could be a valuable addition to the club if they remain in contention for the central. It would almost be like acq. a starter for a season if he can return healthy. I dont think we Tribe fans have ever saw a healthy Reyes.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:56 pm

Chiz finally with a big night, 4 hits...
I'd say Reyes is a real long-shot to be much help... he hasn't been healthy this century...
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby toledobuck » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:06 am

Hermie13 wrote:
toledobuck wrote:Reyes or De La could get the call at COL. The Tribe may elect to bring up Huff and if that does not happen they could bring up an early call for Alex White. It would be understood that White would be sent down asap upon the return to health of Carrasco/Talbot so his service clock does not get extended too much.


Well reports are positive on Carrasco. That said, would be pretty dumb/pointless to call up White for a couple of starts to send down. While we all hope he will perform and options will never become an issue...but no point in wasting one for no good reason.



I'd be surprised if White does not get the call at all this season. Your comment advises that White should not be called up at all this year regardless if he keeps up his production and K rate. I am bullish that White will continue to progress and dominate AAA. An option is good for a whole year so if the Tribe intends to call him up this year, mine as well allow him to make some spot starts if needed in early to mid season. If they send him up and down several times this year, he still only uses up one option.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:44 am

Reyes would be in Columbus if there was a spot. Problem is he is lower priority and the Indians have so much starting depth at ML/AAA/AA level. At some point Reyes should go to Columbus and fill a hole in the rotation there.

I agree that it would be senseless to callup White now. No reason to rush him....let him develop and finish him off and be a long term option possibly in June or later. In the meantime, use the depth options you have in Huff, McAllister, etc and give them a chance.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:22 pm

toledobuck wrote:I'd be surprised if White does not get the call at all this season. Your comment advises that White should not be called up at all this year regardless if he keeps up his production and K rate. I am bullish that White will continue to progress and dominate AAA. An option is good for a whole year so if the Tribe intends to call him up this year, mine as well allow him to make some spot starts if needed in early to mid season. If they send him up and down several times this year, he still only uses up one option.


And if they call him up June/July and never send him down, then he uses ZERO options this year.....that's the point.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:59 pm

Sounding more and more like all this talk was for nothing. Sounds like Carrasco's elbow is in solid shape (fingers crossed on his bullpen session).

Not to mention it looks like tonight's game could be rained out...meaning we could easily skip Carrasco's start Saturday.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Peter Mil » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:50 pm

So where are all the Chiz and Kipnis promoters now that Phelps has been eating their lunch with his bat since the beginning of the season. Chiz and Kipnis have been fighting to stay above 200 and Phelps has been hovering between 300-400 since day 1, (I believe he hasn't dropped below 320 yet)--But, no one seems to be talking about the fact that Phelps is dominating these 'higher prospects' day in, day out.... Not to mention being bounced around the infield and performing at every position they throw him at---"far superior" athlete is demonstrated on the field not through hype---start looking at performance rather than projection. Phelps is killing them so far. Why aren't you guys talking about this, I'm sure if the story was reversed that's all we'd be hearing about--
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby danh8 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:07 pm

Peter Mil wrote:So where are all the Chiz and Kipnis promoters now that Phelps has been eating their lunch with his bat since the beginning of the season. Chiz and Kipnis have been fighting to stay above 200 and Phelps has been hovering between 300-400 since day 1, (I believe he hasn't dropped below 320 yet)--But, no one seems to be talking about the fact that Phelps is dominating these 'higher prospects' day in, day out.... Not to mention being bounced around the infield and performing at every position they throw him at---"far superior" athlete is demonstrated on the field not through hype---start looking at performance rather than projection. Phelps is killing them so far. Why aren't you guys talking about this, I'm sure if the story was reversed that's all we'd be hearing about--


Cannot turn a blind eye to what he's been doing now for going on 15 months straight. He's proving to be far better than anyone anticipated. He's going to force people to recognize him.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Edible14 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:14 pm

Peter Mil wrote:So where are all the Chiz and Kipnis promoters now that Phelps has been eating their lunch with his bat since the beginning of the season. Chiz and Kipnis have been fighting to stay above 200 and Phelps has been hovering between 300-400 since day 1, (I believe he hasn't dropped below 320 yet)--But, no one seems to be talking about the fact that Phelps is dominating these 'higher prospects' day in, day out.... Not to mention being bounced around the infield and performing at every position they throw him at---"far superior" athlete is demonstrated on the field not through hype---start looking at performance rather than projection. Phelps is killing them so far. Why aren't you guys talking about this, I'm sure if the story was reversed that's all we'd be hearing about--


Right, because performance at AAA and the AFL is clearly the best predictor of success. That's why Jordan Brown and Jason Donald are perennial all-stars right now. :crazy:

Nobody doubts that Phelps can be a contributor at the ML level. It's just that few people think he'll be what Kipnis is projected to be. Kipnis is further away - he was drafted a year later as was Chiz - and has more time to accomplish what he needs. Phelps has also had a lot more time to hit AAA pitching. Remember, this time last year Kipnis was in Kinston. It's not surprising that Chiz and Kipnis aren't doing great right away - this is their first time at AAA (Kipnis was there for something like a week last year, but that hardly counts).

What this is proof of, though, is that people who though Chiz should have been the opening day 3B for Cleveland were absolutely wrong.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Peter Mil » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:25 pm

Wrong. Chiz drafted same year as Phelps. They have been in lock-step, except that Phelps has performed better and thus was promoted to AAA before Chiz. Check your facts.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:42 pm

Peter Mil wrote:So where are all the Chiz and Kipnis promoters now that Phelps has been eating their lunch with his bat since the beginning of the season. Chiz and Kipnis have been fighting to stay above 200 and Phelps has been hovering between 300-400 since day 1, (I believe he hasn't dropped below 320 yet)--But, no one seems to be talking about the fact that Phelps is dominating these 'higher prospects' day in, day out.... Not to mention being bounced around the infield and performing at every position they throw him at---"far superior" athlete is demonstrated on the field not through hype---start looking at performance rather than projection. Phelps is killing them so far. Why aren't you guys talking about this, I'm sure if the story was reversed that's all we'd be hearing about--


Phelps has had a very nice 2011 so far. He also had a very nice 2010 as well, something that was glossed over some by the good years guys like Kipnis, Chen and some others had.

This is what you want to see though, a guy like Phelps doing what he needs to do to put the pressure on Kipnis/Chisenhall and potentially overtaking them on the depth chart. Reminds me of Josh Tomlin. Was so often overlooked for the Hector Rondon's of the world and Tomlin just continued to perform, controlled what he could control, and got the chance and is running with it now. That's what could eventually happen with Phelps.

The bottom line though is when you poll other teams, they without question value Kipnis/Chisenhall as the better long term players. It's not just the Indians or the fans. It's just an evaluation of the skills of the players and projected performance with past performance. The performance over the first 2-3 weeks has little meaning so far, good or bad. If Chisenhall/Kipnis struggle all year and Phelps has a season like last year again, you may get some opinion changing then.

But like I said, a good problem to have. It's nothing against Phelps....just a product of having a talented team/system where some players will unfortuntely get the short end of the stick (for no apparent reason).
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Peter Mil » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:50 pm

Actually, all three were picked in the 08 draft--Chiz: 1st round, Phelps: 3rd round, Kipnis: 4th round. The Indians picked Phelps over Kipnis in 08. Kipnis went back to school. At some point performance on the field trumps hype.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Chip Davis » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:26 am

TonyIPI wrote:Reyes would be in Columbus if there was a spot. Problem is he is lower priority and the Indians have so much starting depth at ML/AAA/AA level. At some point Reyes should go to Columbus and fill a hole in the rotation there.

I agree that it would be senseless to callup White now. No reason to rush him....let him develop and finish him off and be a long term option possibly in June or later. In the meantime, use the depth options you have in Huff, McAllister, etc and give them a chance.


I totally agree that White should not be the one called up. My reasoning might be a little different though. I think the Huff's and McAllister's of the world should be used first in order to hopefully establish some value. Huff has struggled of late but has had some success in the "not too distant" past. Maybe an opportunity like this is what he needs to become a solid option again. The Tribe brass know White is definately part of the future so they need to sort through some of the others.

I think we all get caught up with the enigma of players like White, Pomeranz, Chisenhall, Kipnis and so on, but we all need to remember that guys like Tomlin, Phelps and other lesser profile players are just as important to an organization as the higher profile players if not more so. Unless you are the Bankees and can buy whatever you need, teams have to fill in the voids around their "key" players. I think this is what makes players like a Casey Blake so valuable.

On a side note. Too bad they elected not to sugically repair Rondon's elbow immediately. He could have been close to possibly contributing early this season. More quality depth.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:55 am

Peter Mil wrote:Actually, all three were picked in the 08 draft--Chiz: 1st round, Phelps: 3rd round, Kipnis: 4th round. The Indians picked Phelps over Kipnis in 08. Kipnis went back to school. At some point performance on the field trumps hype.
Prior to the start of this season, a group of about 17 regular posters on this site had the opportunity to "rank" the players in the Indians minor league system. In what is considered a top five minor league system in all of baseball, Cord Phelps was rated as low as the Indians 17th best prospect to as high as 9th best prospect. There is no "slighting" or "hyping" of Cord being done.. These Indians' fans are being realistic, Cord is a Top Ten Prospect in a top five system. On field accomplishment and development have proven to be correct... Phelps is a pretty damn good player.. :drinks:
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Rocky55 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:07 am

I'd vote for promoting Alex White. He's going to be rostered this year anyway. As long as it's agreed that he's up only as long as it takes the injured guys to come back. Then I'd send him back down to keep the service time thing in order. It would be good experience for him.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby petes999 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:18 am

Rocky55 wrote:I'd vote for promoting Alex White. He's going to be rostered this year anyway. As long as it's agreed that he's up only as long as it takes the injured guys to come back. Then I'd send him back down to keep the service time thing in order. It would be good experience for him.


I vote no ... yes he will probably be rostered at some point if he keeps on improving and we keep winning. However, he doesn't need to be rostered for Rule 5 purposes. The reason I bring it up is that we have a lot of players who need to be rostered. So, why bring him up before we really need him - more than a few spot starts. Yes, his service time is based on when he is up here. However, he can pull something on Monday and be out for the rest of the year ... just the luck we have been having. If so, we just used up another 40 man spot -- something that we have experienced a lot of lately with delays to Rondon and De La Cruz unfortunately. Learn our lesson and plan out the development.

Also the other point is unless we are in the race (which our chances improve everyday), why bring up a pitcher before he is ready? Look at our learning curve with Masterson. Took him a few years to get it really going as a starter because he didn't have that pitch for lefties. Now, we have less than 4 years before he is a FA ... versus a good 6 years. Now, we will lose him and Masterson after 2014 ... Boston can spend there way out of thise circumstances, we can't. Hopefully by then we have White, Pom and Knapp ready and going strong .... but we said a few years ago that Miller, Lofgren and Carmona would replace CC and Lee.

I want to push our good players in the minors as we need them to feel that they can win a spot ... and thus push themselves. Yet why overly rush someone who still needs that third pitch (including Pom).

So in July, if we are in the race and White continues to dominate and is better than Talbot, Gomez and Tomlin, sure give him that chance. But, why so early? Instead, I would give Huff a chance to improve his trade value as he is on his way out of the Indians .... the writting is on the wall. Hopefully, we can get more than Lawson for a potential 4th/5th starter ... but with Tribe not even considering him, don't count on it.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:36 pm

Peter Mil wrote:Actually, all three were picked in the 08 draft--Chiz: 1st round, Phelps: 3rd round, Kipnis: 4th round. The Indians picked Phelps over Kipnis in 08. Kipnis went back to school. At some point performance on the field trumps hype.


Both guys played at AA last year....and Kipnis outperformed Phelps.

In 53 games at AA for Phelps: .296 BA, .743 OPS, 2 HR, 8 doubles, 1 SB and 4 CS.

In 79 games at AA for Kipnis: .311 BA, .887 OPS, 10 HR, 20 doubles, 7 SB and 1 CS.

Yes Phelps hit very well at AAA last year and so far is outperforming Kipnis this season, but don't get why some people are acting like Phelps has been outperforming Kipnis for more than just the last month. Phelps did slightly outhit Kipnis in the AFL this year.....1.031 OPS to a .966 OPS (both were top 10 in that category in the entire league).

Not saying that Phelps can't be a better MLer though. He very well could...and I agree, at "some point" you gotta look at performance over hype.....but I'd like to see more than a month or so of him "outperforming" Kipnis before I say he trumps Kip's "hype"
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby danh8 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:49 pm

Peter Mil wrote:Actually, all three were picked in the 08 draft--Chiz: 1st round, Phelps: 3rd round, Kipnis: 4th round. The Indians picked Phelps over Kipnis in 08. Kipnis went back to school. At some point performance on the field trumps hype.


Kipnis was a 2nd round pick for us in '09. You are right, on the field performance does trump hype. Nobody can dispute that ..
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:05 pm

Peter Mil wrote:So where are all the Chiz and Kipnis promoters now that Phelps has been eating their lunch with his bat since the beginning of the season. Chiz and Kipnis have been fighting to stay above 200 and Phelps has been hovering between 300-400 since day 1, (I believe he hasn't dropped below 320 yet)--But, no one seems to be talking about the fact that Phelps is dominating these 'higher prospects' day in, day out.... Not to mention being bounced around the infield and performing at every position they throw him at---"far superior" athlete is demonstrated on the field not through hype---start looking at performance rather than projection. Phelps is killing them so far. Why aren't you guys talking about this, I'm sure if the story was reversed that's all we'd be hearing about--


You're acting like people should be upset that Phelps has been so good. Trust me, we dont care who it is. We want the best players on the Indians. Phelps was playing good but not great for his first 2 1/2 seasons in the minors. Since the 2nd half (AAA) of last year he has been outstanding. If he keeps it up all year he will get the hype.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby daingean » Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:04 pm

Lloyd Christmas wrote:
Peter Mil wrote:So where are all the Chiz and Kipnis promoters now that Phelps has been eating their lunch with his bat since the beginning of the season. Chiz and Kipnis have been fighting to stay above 200 and Phelps has been hovering between 300-400 since day 1, (I believe he hasn't dropped below 320 yet)--But, no one seems to be talking about the fact that Phelps is dominating these 'higher prospects' day in, day out.... Not to mention being bounced around the infield and performing at every position they throw him at---"far superior" athlete is demonstrated on the field not through hype---start looking at performance rather than projection. Phelps is killing them so far. Why aren't you guys talking about this, I'm sure if the story was reversed that's all we'd be hearing about--


You're acting like people should be upset that Phelps has been so good. Trust me, we dont care who it is. We want the best players on the Indians. Phelps was playing good but not great for his first 2 1/2 seasons in the minors. Since the 2nd half (AAA) of last year he has been outstanding. If he keeps it up all year he will get the hype.


I am not sure why we (as fans) pit Phelps and Kipnis (and Chiz to a lesser degree) against each other. Yes they are competing to be "The 2nd of the Future" and that competition will probably extend for a while. I for one am happy we have both guys. I am hoping Phelps gets a promo soon (or at least at the end of May) - he certainly is earning it now.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby davidkey » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:07 pm

Peter Mil wrote:Wrong. Chiz drafted same year as Phelps. They have been in lock-step, except that Phelps has performed better and thus was promoted to AAA before Chiz. Check your facts.



Chiz is right now about 22.5 years old and played about 2 years at a community college before being drafted. Phelps turned 24 in January and played 3 years at Stanford before being drafted. So I don't think that a Chiz - Phelps comparison is an apple to apple comparison. Not only because of their respective ages when drafted by also the respective amount/quality (community college vs. Stanford) of post-secondary (for lack of a better term) experience that they had when they were drafted.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Pressrunnr » Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:00 pm

I am not sure why we (as fans) pit Phelps and Kipnis (and Chiz to a lesser degree) against each other. Yes they are competing to be "The 2nd of the Future" and that competition will probably extend for a while. I for one am happy we have both guys. I am hoping Phelps gets a promo soon (or at least at the end of May) - he certainly is earning it now.


How's this for an over-the-top best-case scenario for the whole Phelps/Kipinis discussion: What if this becomes the Tribe's version of the Cavs' old Mark Price-Kevin Johnson situation? KJ, the higher draft pick, the guy with more of what were considered "tools" and "athleticism" and Price, well, you know. Could that be a somewhat apt comparison from those who've seen both? (And if so, is there a "Larry Nance" out there somewhere the Tribe could get for Kipinis?)
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Rocky55 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:54 pm

McAllister pitched out of a jam to maintain shutout in the 3rd vs Gwinett. Chiz airmailed a throw on a routine grounder. Tony said most Chiz' errors are on throws & I can see why. Not even close.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:27 pm

Chisenhall 2-for-3 with a 2B, HR and 2RBI against Braves LHP Mike Minor.

Clippers lead 2-0 mid 6th.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby davidkey » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:16 am

petes999 wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:I'd vote for promoting Alex White. He's going to be rostered this year anyway. As long as it's agreed that he's up only as long as it takes the injured guys to come back. Then I'd send him back down to keep the service time thing in order. It would be good experience for him.


I vote no ... yes he will probably be rostered at some point if he keeps on improving and we keep winning. However, he doesn't need to be rostered for Rule 5 purposes. The reason I bring it up is that we have a lot of players who need to be rostered. So, why bring him up before we really need him - more than a few spot starts. Yes, his service time is based on when he is up here. However, he can pull something on Monday and be out for the rest of the year ... just the luck we have been having. If so, we just used up another 40 man spot -- something that we have experienced a lot of lately with delays to Rondon and De La Cruz unfortunately. Learn our lesson and plan out the development.

Also the other point is unless we are in the race (which our chances improve everyday), why bring up a pitcher before he is ready? Look at our learning curve with Masterson. Took him a few years to get it really going as a starter because he didn't have that pitch for lefties. Now, we have less than 4 years before he is a FA ... versus a good 6 years. Now, we will lose him and Masterson after 2014 ... Boston can spend there way out of thise circumstances, we can't. Hopefully by then we have White, Pom and Knapp ready and going strong .... but we said a few years ago that Miller, Lofgren and Carmona would replace CC and Lee.

I want to push our good players in the minors as we need them to feel that they can win a spot ... and thus push themselves. Yet why overly rush someone who still needs that third pitch (including Pom).

So in July, if we are in the race and White continues to dominate and is better than Talbot, Gomez and Tomlin, sure give him that chance. But, why so early? Instead, I would give Huff a chance to improve his trade value as he is on his way out of the Indians .... the writting is on the wall. Hopefully, we can get more than Lawson for a potential 4th/5th starter ... but with Tribe not even considering him, don't count on it.


Not sure about Masterson, but I think you're dead wrong to write that we'll lose "him and Masterson" after 2014, assuming the 'him' that you refer to is Alex White. This is 2011 and he won't accumulate a full year of service this year. You're only eligible for FA after 6 full years of service. So we do a little math, and see that White can't be a free agent until after the 2016 year at earliest, or perhaps 2017 considering he won't accumulate 6 fulls years until sometime during the 2017 season.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:16 am

davidkey wrote:
petes999 wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:I'd vote for promoting Alex White. He's going to be rostered this year anyway. As long as it's agreed that he's up only as long as it takes the injured guys to come back. Then I'd send him back down to keep the service time thing in order. It would be good experience for him.


I vote no ... yes he will probably be rostered at some point if he keeps on improving and we keep winning. However, he doesn't need to be rostered for Rule 5 purposes. The reason I bring it up is that we have a lot of players who need to be rostered. So, why bring him up before we really need him - more than a few spot starts. Yes, his service time is based on when he is up here. However, he can pull something on Monday and be out for the rest of the year ... just the luck we have been having. If so, we just used up another 40 man spot -- something that we have experienced a lot of lately with delays to Rondon and De La Cruz unfortunately. Learn our lesson and plan out the development.

Also the other point is unless we are in the race (which our chances improve everyday), why bring up a pitcher before he is ready? Look at our learning curve with Masterson. Took him a few years to get it really going as a starter because he didn't have that pitch for lefties. Now, we have less than 4 years before he is a FA ... versus a good 6 years. Now, we will lose him and Masterson after 2014 ... Boston can spend there way out of thise circumstances, we can't. Hopefully by then we have White, Pom and Knapp ready and going strong .... but we said a few years ago that Miller, Lofgren and Carmona would replace CC and Lee.

I want to push our good players in the minors as we need them to feel that they can win a spot ... and thus push themselves. Yet why overly rush someone who still needs that third pitch (including Pom).

So in July, if we are in the race and White continues to dominate and is better than Talbot, Gomez and Tomlin, sure give him that chance. But, why so early? Instead, I would give Huff a chance to improve his trade value as he is on his way out of the Indians .... the writting is on the wall. Hopefully, we can get more than Lawson for a potential 4th/5th starter ... but with Tribe not even considering him, don't count on it.


Not sure about Masterson, but I think you're dead wrong to write that we'll lose "him and Masterson" after 2014, assuming the 'him' that you refer to is Alex White. This is 2011 and he won't accumulate a full year of service this year. You're only eligible for FA after 6 full years of service. So we do a little math, and see that White can't be a free agent until after the 2016 year at earliest, or perhaps 2017 considering he won't accumulate 6 fulls years until sometime during the 2017 season.

Don't want to answer for pete but he may mean Masterson & Carmona. His arguement has it's points, very good ones for the "small market" Indians. Funny, more ironic, that he mentions Miller, who spent his "shelf life" in the minor leagues. White is not Miller, however, from having seen White & read about Miller they both are tough minded, competetive guys. I say this because I think White might be ready right now. If he is & we're determined not to let this good start go to waste, if we believe we can compete for the "whole damn thing", we have to use all of our assets to maximize our chances.

We've had people on this board stating that White is no more than a 2/3 starter for a long time so what's the big loss of one year service time? We have to make sure that Pomeranz, Knapp, Adams, etc., are ready to step in. With the effed up free agent rules that mostly benefit a few teams, we have to use our assets wisely. That may include maximizing our control over them but also may include using them when we have a chance to do some damage. Other talented young pitches have been brought up with even less minor league service time & haven't skipped a beat.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Edible14 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:27 am

A 2/3 starter is still quite valuable. Nowadays, those kinds of pitchers get $10M+/year.

Really, though, it is hard to handicap 2016/2017. There will be so much roster turnover by then that it's hard to say that losing White a year early would destroy the team's chances of competing. For all we know, the window of opportunity could be firmly closed at that point, and White won't affect much. I don't think that matters too much right now, considering that the FO believes that this team can win now.

The real question is whether White is the best option right now. I was under the impression that this wasn't so. Apparently, the people in the FO disagree.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:55 am

Re last night's game, Cord Phelps looked disapointingly inept against Minor. Minor is a true ML pitcher in AAA so I was interested in seeing how our guys would do against him. Chiz looked Chiz-like, kip looked OK, despite the lefty/lefty thing. Cord looked weak as a RH against Minor.

McAllister looks like a guy who can help the big club this year. First time I've seen him. Good arm strength, decent command, mixed his pitches well, got some GB outs. He's better than some ML pitchers right now IMO.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:56 am

Is Rodriguez going to take playing time away from Phelps
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:41 pm

Rocky55 wrote:Re last night's game, Cord Phelps looked disapointingly inept against Minor. Minor is a true ML pitcher in AAA so I was interested in seeing how our guys would do against him. Chiz looked Chiz-like, kip looked OK, despite the lefty/lefty thing. Cord looked weak as a RH against Minor.

McAllister looks like a guy who can help the big club this year. First time I've seen him. Good arm strength, decent command, mixed his pitches well, got some GB outs. He's better than some ML pitchers right now IMO.


Best game of the year IMO for Chiz (at the plate at least). Double and a HR off a tough lefty :drinks:
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:25 pm

Rodriguez, Phelps, Donald, Kipnis, Chisenhall all vying for playing time.. I don't like this one bit.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:34 pm

A.Zajac wrote:Rodriguez, Phelps, Donald, Kipnis, Chisenhall all vying for playing time.. I don't like this one bit.

JoshRod returned? I missed that.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Edible14 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:41 pm

A.Zajac wrote:Rodriguez, Phelps, Donald, Kipnis, Chisenhall all vying for playing time.. I don't like this one bit.


Is JRod for sure going to CBus? I figured the org would put him in Akron for the time being. Also, don't forget that Valbuena is still there. Honestly, though, if Valbuena can't even get playing time in CBus, what's the point of him being on the 40?
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby toledobuck » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:21 pm

When can we expect JRod being back in our organization somewhere?
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby bmonnig » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:24 pm

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/04/p ... dians.html

The Pirates announced that they returned Rule 5 selection Josh Rodriguez to the Indians. Rodriguez, who had been designated for assignment last week, will head to Triple-A, according to the Indians. It cost $25K for Cleveland to accept the 26-year-old infielder back from Pittsburgh.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:25 pm

Edible14 wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:Rodriguez, Phelps, Donald, Kipnis, Chisenhall all vying for playing time.. I don't like this one bit.


Is JRod for sure going to CBus? I figured the org would put him in Akron for the time being. Also, don't forget that Valbuena is still there. Honestly, though, if Valbuena can't even get playing time in CBus, what's the point of him being on the 40?


From all indications I've gotten, Rodriguez is headed to C-Bus. Is not on the 40-man, though. The Indians have some roster decisions looming.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Peter Mil » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:55 pm

[quote="Rocky55"]Re last night's game, Cord Phelps looked disapointingly inept against Minor. Minor is a true ML pitcher in AAA so I was interested in seeing how our guys would do against him. Chiz looked Chiz-like, kip looked OK, despite the lefty/lefty thing. Cord looked weak as a RH against Minor.

This board is a little comical. Phelps has a one bad game and he is "disappointingly inept". Check out the stats, he has been in the top all season thus far. Check out the specifics of his RH/LH and against which pitchers. Look where Chiz and Kip have been. Check out how many 0-fers they've had compared to Phelps. I was right with my earlier post-- Phelps can dominate them for weeks without much notice from you guys. He can even hit 2HR's in one game and hardly get a sentence. Chiz and Kip can be fighting to stay above 200, and no one blogs about "looking inept". Chiz and Kip can have a single good game after weeks of 'nothing special' and this blog is gaga.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:24 pm

Rocky55 wrote:
TitoFrancona wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:Phelps hits 2 HR & what kind of write up does he get in "Around the Farm" on the front page?

"This is a fantastic sign towards Phelps ultimately being a super-utility guy."

Just think, if he averages THREE HR's a game they might consider him a starter sometime in the distant future.


I agree Rocky and I've been saying that for months. Phelps imo is the most undervalued prospect in our system. Not just by the media but by the Indians' org themselves. I have no idea what more this kid has to do to open their eyes to see him as more than a future utility player.

I've said it before, if that's all they see of Phelps maybe they should do him, themselves and another team a favor and trade him. It doesn't look like he's going to get a fair opportunity to show his stuff here. Maybe I'm totally wrong. Maybe they do have a much higher opinion of him than it appears. I certainly hope so. I've liked this kid since the day they drafted him

I hear ya Tito. I was on the TCF board the year Phelps was drafted & I think I was the only one on there that had even heard of Phelps. Great guys over there but not the draft maniacs like we are here. I just hope that if Kipnis starts at 2B ahead of him it's because Kipnis beats him out, & not because of some foregone conclusion. Let it be a fair contest. Seems like they're both great guys to have in the org.

Quoted so the troll can keep up.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:59 pm

Phelps 0-5 with 4 K's tonight... Kipnis a homer but 2 errors... Chiz 0-4... RELEASE THEM ALL!!! Time for Valbuena!!!
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby jellis » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:50 pm

martyinnewyork wrote:Phelps 0-5 with 4 K's tonight... Kipnis a homer but 2 errors... Chiz 0-4... RELEASE THEM ALL!!! Time for Valbuena!!!


+1 bums all of them, where is micheal aubrey when you need him
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Sun May 01, 2011 11:31 am

Columbus roster is simply bursting at the seams with ML caliber players. Flat out amazing how many options for the short/long term there. The Indians are simply LOADED with talent. Be it star caliber, or pieces/parts ML guys.

The Columbus infield is an interesting conundrum. I agree there is no room there for everyone....but I have a feeling a move is coming with either a Huffman or Phelps promotion and dumping Kearns (or DLing Hafner). I know Buck seems like the first option, and he may be, but I have a feeling that Huffman/Phelps are close too. If I am Austin Kearns, I pack lite for the upcoming road trip. In fact, wouldn't be surprised if some moves are announced after the game today in advance of leaving.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Sun May 01, 2011 5:57 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Columbus roster is simply bursting at the seams with ML caliber players. Flat out amazing how many options for the short/long term there. The Indians are simply LOADED with talent. Be it star caliber, or pieces/parts ML guys.

The Columbus infield is an interesting conundrum. I agree there is no room there for everyone....but I have a feeling a move is coming with either a Huffman or Phelps promotion and dumping Kearns (or DLing Hafner). I know Buck seems like the first option, and he may be, but I have a feeling that Huffman/Phelps are close too. If I am Austin Kearns, I pack lite for the upcoming road trip. In fact, wouldn't be surprised if some moves are announced after the game today in advance of leaving.

+1 Tony! I know we have some oldies but goodies in Columbus but there is a wealth of talent throughout the roster. I don't know if it will be soon but I think Carlin exchanging places with Marson is quite possible. Huffman seems to fit the profile of Indian needs in the OF a bit better than Buck IMO. His plate discipline is improved and he has better power IMO. I don't know what you have heard but my brother tells me that Weglarz is due back in two weeks. Hate to see this happen to kearns so quickly in the season but he looks to be the weak link. :friends:
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby silverbackAXP » Tue May 03, 2011 11:48 pm

How did Carlton Smith learn to be effective? 12.2IP 9H 2BB 17K this year
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Wed May 04, 2011 8:48 am

silverbackAXP wrote:How did Carlton Smith learn to be effective? 12.2IP 9H 2BB 17K this year


Smith is starting to look like this year's Frank Herrmann. Remember this time last year Herrmann started out in Columbus with something like one earned run allowed in 29 innings with over 40 K's and then got promoted to the bigs?

It's still early as Smith has only 13 innings but he's on the same track.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed May 04, 2011 6:50 pm

Anyone else catch that Valbuena started the game in LF yesterday?

Reigning minor league player of the week too.

His OPS is actually higher now than Cord Phelps (by a whopping .001, .874 vs .873). Isn't showing the patience he used to, but he is locked in at the plate. I know fans want to see Phelps....but to me you gotta call up Valbuena first. 2nd on the team in HRs, tied for the team lead this spring, playing all over the field (2B, SS, 3B, and LF) while making only 1 error, hitting all over the lineup. I'd give him another look.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby MadThinker88 » Wed May 04, 2011 8:54 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Anyone else catch that Valbuena started the game in LF yesterday?

Reigning minor league player of the week too.

His OPS is actually higher now than Cord Phelps (by a whopping .001, .874 vs .873). Isn't showing the patience he used to, but he is locked in at the plate. I know fans want to see Phelps....but to me you gotta call up Valbuena first. 2nd on the team in HRs, tied for the team lead this spring, playing all over the field (2B, SS, 3B, and LF) while making only 1 error, hitting all over the lineup. I'd give him another look.


IF Valbuena keeps it up I would rather look to move him in a deal. Try to pick up a high A or AA position player that is still a season away from needing roster protection.

The way others are performing roster mgmt will be very important, perhaps more important then the past few years.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed May 04, 2011 10:40 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:IF Valbuena keeps it up I would rather look to move him in a deal. Try to pick up a high A or AA position player that is still a season away from needing roster protection.

The way others are performing roster mgmt will be very important, perhaps more important then the past few years.


Definitely possible. I just see Valbuena as a solid utility infield option going forward. Has shown he has some ML pop, can steal a base, improved defensively, plays all 3 spots and now the OF. Nice 25th man.

Obviously Phelps could be better, but I'd wager he has more value and gets you something better in a trade. Will be interesting for srue to see how we handle the roster the next few weeks.

and not saying we should be trading Phelps (not trying to make it sound that way), just wanted to clarify that.
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Re: 2011 Columbus Clippers Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Wed May 04, 2011 10:59 pm

Chisenhall (3B), Phelps (SS), and Kipnis (2B) are the priority guys and will get most of the time at those positions. Donald will be mixing in at 3B, SS and 2B. Valbuena and JRod are going to get most of their time in LF and occassional spot time in the infield.

Just incredible depth though. Imagine when Wegz and Goedert come back. And then Talbot/Carrasco come back and two starters in AAA have to move out.
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